Free Calling Areas (Re-organized)

[TheHardy]

I unfortunately find the FPL website free-city calling list (http://www.freephoneline.ca/cityListing) to be not only poorly organized, but also outdated. Steve has confirmed this and asked for update information (which I have passed along). Jake also maintains his own listings (on his own webspace?), and while it is very comprehensive, moreso even than the FPL version, it too is incomplete. It has some nice search functions, and a few bells and whistles, but it could also stand for some reorganization.

Either that, or maybe I am just a little too picky in what I would like to see, or how I think it should be organized.

Ideally, to my way of thinking, the main basic layout would be sorted by province and then by major city. Towns/cities that are a local call from THAT major city would then be grouped under that city. Of course, there would also be some searches available, such as the old simply NPA-NXX format (which both FPL and Jake currently have, although the FPL one, you have to look for a bit, it is not on the free-city list -- http://www.freephoneline.ca/ldServices). Also handy to have, is the full-on list, such as both FPL and Jake have (although it would be nice for it to be complete!).

So, I will slowly start to post them here, maybe they are handy for some of you, maybe not. Maybe the FPL website folks can grab a look here and go from there for updating their own site.

As always, I am looking for input and feedback too. If anyone has further information on which other cities/towns etc are local calls (or not, in case I have screwed up!), please post. Especially out in ON and QC for some of the smaller towns, my lists will be using a lot of assumption and a few validation checks to see if they are accurate, but first-hand knowledge is always appreciated!

[Jake]

Well, if Steve is listening (reading), if he can get me a list of all the rate centers that FPL (Fibernetics) have and use, I can easily make up a full and comprehensive list. At the moment all I can really do is list all the ones that the localcallingguide list as owned by fibernetics, plus a couple more than Steve has already given me.

I will also point out that sometimes there is a glitch in the FPL system that allows calls to go through as free when they should not be. Victoria BC being one that a few people miss. Although not listed, people could call free to Victoria BC for quite a while, until it was spotted by FPL and closed off. So although you may find some towns which are free to call, you might not be doing some people a favour by pointing it out as it might not be an actual free call area.

I could also write a script that would check all the NPA-NPXs against FPL's online rate checker. Not sure how that one would be taken by them though.

[TheHardy]

FPL currently only has ONE metro-area in British Columbia that it has free calling to -- Vancouver.

As for local number assignment, FPL currently offers them in Vancouver (604-283, 778-300), Richmond (778-803), West Vancouver (778-805), North Vancouver (778-802) and New Westminster (778-801). Fibernetics (FPL's parent company) is the CLEC for all these exchanges. All of these towns/cities are WITHIN the local calling area of Vancouver, which is currently referred to as Metro Vancouver (formerly called Greater Vancouver).

The following list is taken from http://www.localcallingguide.com and is indeed accurate (I live in this area, and have verified it). It lists "RATE CENTRES" rather than cities/towns -- this is the way that the telephone companies do things. I have therefore added some notes to make it easier to understand. This is the specific type of information that I would hope to get as input from some of the other users/forum members that are native to the areas for which I do not have full information!

(Note: ** indicates that FPL offers DID numbers in this city)

BC-VANCOUVER** (Metro Calling area)
--Aldergrove
--Bowen Island
--Cloverdale (includes SURREY)
--Fort Langley (includes SURREY)
--Haney (includes MAPLE RIDGE)
--Ladner (includes DELTA, BEACH GROVE, TSAWWASSEN)
--Langley (includes SURREY)
--New Westminster** (includes BURNABY, COQUITLAM)
--Newton (includes DELTA, SURREY)
--North Vancouver**
--Pitt Meadows
--Port Coquitlam (includes COQUITLAM)
--Port Moody (includes COQUITLAM, ANMORE, BELCARRA)
--Richmond**
--Vancouver** (includes BURNABY)
--West Vancouver** (includes LIONS BAY)
--Whalley (includes SURREY)
--White Rock (includes SURREY)
--Whonnock (includes RUSKIN)

So there is the first entry into this list ... helpful? Suggestions? Comments???

[TheHardy]

I will also point out that sometimes there is a glitch in the FPL system that allows calls to go through as free when they should not be. Victoria BC being one that a few people miss. Although not listed, people could call free to Victoria BC for quite a while, until it was spotted by FPL and closed off. So although you may find some towns which are free to call, you might not be doing some people a favour by pointing it out as it might not be an actual free call area.

I could also write a script that would check all the NPA-NPXs against FPL's online rate checker. Not sure how that one would be taken by them though.

Hmmm, I would have thought that FPL would be VERY on top of their current tariffs/call routing, so as to make SURE that they were not shooting themselves in the foot. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand it this way -- FPL is able to offer free calling to areas where they have points of presence within that calling area, and can therefore route the call without incurring costs to themselves. Is this a correct basic assumption? If that is indeed correct, then whomever is administering the tariff on their end SHOULD fully know which calls are FREE and which are TOLL; if this is not the case, then there is someone at Fibernetics/FPL that needs to get their wrist slapped!

Most of the checking I have done (and PM'd you with) has been confirmed by making calls and checking the FPL rate-checker; assuming that their tariffs are right, no problem. However, as you state, if there is something wrong with their underlying tariffs, then ... well, it is an issue. Unfortunately, there is no real way to know this without getting "inside information".

Your other underlying theory, of seeing where Fibernetics has exchanges listed in the LCA, hits the snags of Halifax and Winnipeg. I am pretty sure this is also the case for a lot of the destinations I sent you over the last week. Do we know why/how FPL is able to offer these areas? Is there another underlying arrangement with another CLEC? Too many questions ...

[Jake]

Steve mentioned those two area to be in this post http://forum.freephoneline.ca/viewtopic ... 913#p12913 and those are the rate centers he sent to me so I could add them in. They must have some agreement with ALIANT TELECOM and MTS COMMUNICATIONS. They can't offer DIDs there, but we can call free to there.

This is one of the threads about the Victoria 250 number http://forum.freephoneline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1264, so the other numbers you have found may fall into the same error as this one.

As you say, without some input from FPL we won't really know. Even if I check the numbers against their online page it will probably just tell me the same as if I try dialing the number, so it won't 100% tell me if the rate I see is actually genuine or just a glitch.

[TheHardy]

As you say, without some input from FPL we won't really know. Even if I check the numbers against their online page it will probably just tell me the same as if I try dialing the number, so it won't 100% tell me if the rate I see is actually genuine or just a glitch.

Precisely. And while I like having more places that I can call for free (and therefore would not really want to jeopardize any potential 'glitches' - again, I don't know how this works out financially for FPL/Fibernetics...), I would like to see an accurate and concise listing.

I guess some could say that I want my cake and wish to eat it too.

I am sure, that between yourself, myself and a few other individuals here that would be willing to put forth some effort, this could be done. From a company point of view, one would think that it would be to FPL/Fibernetic's benefit to have accurate and up-to-date information out there.

Crosschecking FPL's tariff information in a single-blind situation is tough enough as it is. Those "pesky new exchanges" are a lot easier to spot when we already know some working numbers ... as you state, finding entirely new cities/areas that are not somehow connected to existing areas is something different and even more difficult due to the fact that we don't know the tariff arrangements.

[TheHardy]

In case anyone has been asleep, or is new to this whole idea/concept, local calling areas can be found and researched online. There is a handy website for that located at www.localcallingguide.com The term RATE CENTRE is used instead of town/city, so this sometimes leads to some confusion. Most of the time it all makes sense, but there can be some ambiguities, such as trying to find Coquitlam, Burnaby or Surrey as areas local to Vancouver -- they do not exist as RATE CENTRES but are most definitely towns/cities! I would rate the information from this website to be at LEAST 98% accurate, if not more. To date, I have only discovered 2 small errors with it that were corrected as soon as I brought them to the site admin's attention and he verified it.

Another great resource is the www.cnac.ca website. Specific links for NPX-NXX assignments can be found via the format of http://www.cnac.ca/data/ac___.htm where all you need to do is fill in the 3 digits for ___. This is one of the underlying sources for the local calling guide website too, as it is the official Canadian site for number assignments.

This ends the educational section of this post. I think I will tackle the local calling areas for Calgary, Edmonton next ...

[TheHardy]

Second attempt of mine to show all the local calling rate centres, this time for CALGARY, ALBERTA.

FreePhoneLine/Fibernetics currently has two exchanges in the Calgary rate centre, and DOES offer DID's in this rate centre. It should be noted that for some reason (rationing?) there are currently very FEW (if any!) DIDs available for assignment to FreePhoneLine subscribers; my personal thought here is that the business side of Fibernetics and also the porting customers to FPL are being reserved a fair amount of the available numbers.

Fibernetics exchanges are 403-879 & 587-887.

AB-CALGARY** (Metro Calling Area)
--Acme
--Airdrie
--Beiseker
--Blackie
--Bragg Creek
--Calgary** (includes PRIDDIS)
--Carstairs
--Cochrane
--Cremona
--Crossfield
--High River
--Irricana
--Langdon
--Longview
--Morley
--Okotoks
--Strathmore
--Turner Valley

I don't have many notes on extended areas, or alternate city names that I might have missed. All information here, again, is taken from www.localcallingguide.com

[TheHardy]

3rd Listing ... Halifax, NS. FPL/Fibernetics does not currently have any 'presence' in Halifax, but does offer free calling to this destination.

The following (via my usual source) is the listing of ratecentres available locally to Halifax.

NS-HALIFAX (metro calling area)
--Chezzetcook
--Elmsdale
--French Village
--Halifax (includes BAY ROAD, BEDFORD, DARTMOUTH, LAKE ECHO)
--Hubbards
--Ketch Harbour
--Mount Uniacke
--Musquodoboit Harbour
--Prospect Road
--Sackville
--St Margarets
--Waverley

[TheHardy]

Yet another installment of mine, this time chronicling the local calling to the EDMONTON, AB ratecentre.

Fibernetics exchanges in Edmonton are: 780-851 & 587-557

** of course indicates ratecentres in which Fibernetics offers a local phone number... (only Edmonton, btw)

AB-EDMONTON** (Metro Calling Area)
--Alberta Beach
--Ardrossan
--Beaumont
--Bon Accord
--Bruderheim
--Calmar
--Chipman
--Devon
--Edmonton**
--Edmonton International Airport
--Fort Saskatchewan
--Gibbons
--Hay Lakes
--Keephills
--Lamont
--Leduc
--Legal
--Millet
--Morinville
--Namao
--New Sarepta
--Nisku
--Onoway
--Redwater
--Sherwood Park
--Spruce Grove
--St Albert
--St Michael
--Stony Plain
--Thorsby
--Tofield
--Wabamun

[RobIncAMDSPhD]

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Even though I ran into a few situations the past year or so wherein a number local to where my daughter lived at the time (her mum moved her back much closer a number of months back, so this is no longer a continuing issue for me, but since I see so many of you have undertaken this list with zeal like it's going to be made part of the Fedora 16 mainline in just a couple short weeks :p)

But being flippant/snarky aside, a few months back, I provisioned the following DID from another voip provider (well, you'll be ok with just the ANI I guess since I don't actually use this one anymore and maybe whoever will have it doesn't like late night chats with trolls randomly calling because the number was posted on a messageboard....):

Barrie: 705-242XXXX

I had paid the $50 for an Orillia number closeby my daughter when she lived in Gravenhurst (and since you can't change numbers you buy, I still have and use it--but have recently paid another $50 (quite gladly!) for a number where my daughter is now...

The above number was not "covered by [my] tarriff plan"

(Question for Jake and the other "compilers": wouldn't an actual, attested-accurate list necessarily buried somewhere on a CRTC web site, as part of FPL's having CLEC status in a buncha places?)

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[FONGO_kris]

Buried is correct. Unfortunately though you can get a list of the ILEC's in Canada, it only shows per rate center what CLECs are in there, and no way to actually click on Fibernetics and see where we have our presence.

Might I also enquirer as to why you have a PGP sig in all of your posts?

[TheHardy]

Buried is correct. Unfortunately though you can get a list of the ILEC's in Canada, it only shows per rate center what CLECs are in there, and no way to actually click on Fibernetics and see where we have our presence.

That being said, Kris, would you be willing to DIVULGE that information to us? Where does FIbernetics have PoP's (points of presence) at this time? I realize that there is always ONGOING expansion and planning which must remain "behind the scenes", but if you can fill us in on the PoPs that are in addition to where Fibernetics has entire NXX's, that would be welcomed information indeed.

[TheHardy]

Any further word on this yet Kris? Bumping it back to new after some silence and no reply for a week -- maybe you are in vacation, but keeping this fresh.

In my 902 post above regarding Halifax, it seems that one of the ratecentres within the traditional Halifax calling area (St Margarets) has now become a TOLL call for some users (covered in a different thread). Was this intentional or accidental? Is there a contact person (forums or email) that I would better address this to rather than yourself or Steve?

[FONGO_kris]

My apologies TheHardy. Not on vacation, just working on some goodies for you guys

I have emailed a few people within' the company who might be able to help. Steve, being our resident development support specialist has a bit more tug and pull when it comes to divulging information of that nature, but information recon does happen to be my specialty and I'll do some looking for you.

[Jake]

...just working on some goodies for you guys

The last goody you gave us didn't go down to well I'm sure the next one will make up for it though

[FONGO_kris]

The last goody you gave us didn't go down to well I'm sure the next one will make up for it though

It's more of a list, really! Things I've been writing down that users have suggested rating them from "Should be done ASAP" to "Can probably wait until the new year and then some".

[TheHardy]

My apologies TheHardy. Not on vacation, just working on some goodies for you guys

I have emailed a few people within' the company who might be able to help. Steve, being our resident development support specialist has a bit more tug and pull when it comes to divulging information of that nature, but information recon does happen to be my specialty and I'll do some looking for you.

No need to wrap any or stuff them under evergreens...

Didn't think anyone was ignoring us, Kris ... I know the forum is an unofficial support channel and not always speedy (although you and Steve have spoiled us a bit!).

I agree with Jake, the last little surprise was none too well received -- honestly, I think the ball was dropped on the ROLLOUT of the C/F ...

As for info recon, I got a note from Steve about some of my NOSE-POKING already, so I have been "rattling the presents" so to speak. I think some of the toys were BROKEN before they were wrapped tho!

Finding stuff I am not supposed to is ONE of my SPECIALTIES too....

[TheHardy]

It's more of a list, really! Things I've been writing down that users have suggested rating them from "Should be done ASAP" to "Can probably wait until the new year and then some".

Lauren had this going on too, and her and I went back and forth in PM a few times ... is she still with the company, or reassigned or? I did not see too many recent posts from her when I caught up on the forums, but I know she was active towards the end of my first run here ...

I know a lot of stuff lands on your (Kris) and Steve's plate as you two are so active here, and a lot of it is misdirected ...

Cheers!

[FONGO_kris]

Unfortunately you've got that right. FPL-Lauren will be on the forums very infrequently; she has moved into another department other than the call center.

[TheHardy]

Unfortunately you've got that right. FPL-Lauren will be on the forums very infrequently; she has moved into another department other than the call center.

Thanks for the update on that Kris -- glad to know she is still with FPL -- maybe bounce her an INTERNAL memo and see if she still has her info she put together (or the old PM's back and forth between her and I) so that her work on that does not go to waste -- it will, at the very least, give you a solid Jumping-Off Point for what has already been hashed about.

No real need to go back and re-invent the wheel YET again!

[TheHardy]

This message goes and references this one.

I had a reply from Kris way earlier on regarding how FPL figured out what a "free" Local Calling Area (LCA) was determined for a particular city (Point of Presence or PoP). It was, at the time, confirmed that FPL LCA's mirrored "traditional ILEC wireline LCA's" --- in simpler terms, if FPL offered free calling to Vancouver-BC, then Vancouver-BC's LCA as defined by TELUS would be the FPL LCA as well. In this case, Vancouver was an FPL PoP.

We now see this changing in regard to Halifax-NS ... FPL does not offer local Halifax numbers, so is Halifax not really an FPL PoP? And if not, what is it? And why can we call Halifax-NS for free, but not the outlying ratecentres of its traditional ILEC wireline LCA??

I know it is a "tall" question to ask of FPL to address this, and it may be premature if there are pending changes (which I seem to think there are!), but it is definitely something which I would wish to be clarified!

I know that some mistakes have been cleaned up in the tariff (807), and that there are a few areas that are questionable (St Marg-NS) and some new areas coming on-line (many) ... so knowing what the FPL-LCA criteria is would be VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

I am fully aware that there will be speculation and so forth, but an official word from FPL (Kris, Anti-vacation-Steve) or some drilling-down (Mike) would be very welcomed!!

Colour me curious ...

[TheHardy]

In messing around scrolling thru the complete FPL Canadian destination tariff listing off their RateLookUp page, I was interested to find that 1416310 (as well as several other interesting 1416nxx prefixes/ratecentres) are rated as $0.00 (free) calls, whereas the corresponding 1NPAnxx prefixes are rated as TOLL calls.

This brings up the interesting ROUTING question which was asked before --- regarding 310 numbers in specific --- why are they "allowed" in 416 but in no other prefixes?

The statement of call-routing based on geographical location was addressed in previous posts, but the inability to call 310 numbers when no easy alternative is available is a bit of an impediment (albeit a small one overall) ...

I understand completely how the geographic routing of 1-8yy calls works, based on where the calling location is relative to the called location. The ability to dial 310 calls as NPA-310-xxxx should be available though, especially if it is for 416, then it should be available to all area codes/regions!

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this!

<edit> 1647310 is also $0.00 (free), but all other areacodes are $0.02 ...

I can see how FPL may not want to support 7-D 310-xxxx dialing, but supporting it as 10D should not be a problem -- unless there is a chargeback related to completing 310 calls from the FPL network (and some clarification on THAT would be nice too, if possible -- it is my understanding that the CALLED-party eats any charges on 310 calls, sort of reverse billing, similar to WATS/tollfree set up)