Caller ID

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Caller ID

Postby FONGO_kris » 05/03/2010

About a month ago we had a few incidents regarding 911 and caller ID blocking, since we send to a dispatcher (Northern 911) and not directly to PSAP (As all VoIP providers do), Caller-ID block would render this useless if we couldn't speak.

This caused us to re-think the idea of CallerID blocking and we've currently taken it offline as to avoid this issue in the midterm. We are looking into some alternate options for e911 when caller ID is enabled but for the mean time we will not have it as an option, since it is as much a risk to us as it is to you.

Since we do not sign up users on a contract, we cannot in good faith allow them to use Caller ID block, because we cannot trace them if it is misused. In the future, we won't offer it until everything can be validated (like e911); customer responsible for any adverse actions that come with use or abuse of the caller ID block service, for full use of the service you must provide adequate information so that we may verify you are who you say you are, and so that we may locate you in case of an emergency or if we detect misuse of the service.

Cheers,
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby MikeD » 05/14/2010

What??? I think I get more confused the more I read your post.

Are you saying you are disabling the per use CallerID block or all call CallerID block? I can't see why anyone would use the per use CallerID block in an emergency call to 911. Even more so, I can't see why a 911 service provider wouldn't have a CallerID block disabler. I definitely don't feel very safe with the 911 provided by FreePhoneline.ca as of now.

Perhaps you can enable the per use CallerID block feature but leave the all call CallerID block feature disabled? Maybe have CallerID set to re-enable itself regardless of whether the last call had CallerID block enabled or not?

Over in the Big Reports section under the "CallerID Block not working" thread, rege makes a good point where he says "I'm sure CRTC compliance includes the *67 capability to protect ones number from being given out against ones wishes." That's why we have privacy laws. A quick Google search comes up with http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs19-cid.htm where they say "FCC rules require phone companies to make available free, simple, and uniform per-line blocking and unblocking processes." Perhaps this is American, but I'm sure it would apply in Canada too.

Sorry for rambling on but I sure hope you can get this resolved soon or at least put a "Band-Aid" fix in for the meantime.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_steve » 05/14/2010

FCC =/= CRTC

We are looking into what can be done to make this happen without interrupting 911

Keep in mind that Northern911 is another dispatch provider, not us. For now, as we value the personal safety of our users, this is disabled while a fix is being looked into.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_kris » 05/14/2010

I'd like to point out that we do not follow the FCC, as it governs the United States, the CRTC governs Canada.

It (CRTC) does not say we have to allow caller id block, especially over VoIP where there are no privacy laws in Canada pertaining specifically to VoIP. If we allowed all caller id block the PSAPs simply wont take your call, which is a liability to us and a danger to you the customer. The PSAPs noted that 9-1-1 systems were equipped with safeguards and safety mechanisms that are use daily, the PSAPs also noted that bypassing these safety mechanisms by completely blocking your CID, ANI etc... would result in missed and unanswered 9-1-1 calls.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2007/dt2007-44.htm

The Commission concludes that delivering 9-1-1 calls to a PSAP over low-priority lines or using restricted numbers would harm PSAP network security and integrity, and could severely disrupt the PSAP's operations. Any such disruption would ultimately jeopardize public safety for all 9-1-1 service users, whether they subscribe to VoIP, wireline, or wireless telephone services.

p35.

"I'm sure CRTC compliance includes the *67 capability to protect ones number from being given out against ones wishes."

Now, though there is a privacy law, in a nutshell it only includes us (Carrier) gaining consent to release users data to the PSAPS; if they chose not to give consent (includes caller id blocking), they are then taking it upon themselves to ensure their own safety by using the 911 services.

Disclosure act - DT2005-15

To have what you suggested, unblock CID upon dialing 911, we would need to have our own emergency dialing number, and of course Northern911 (Emergency Dispatcher for ALL VoIP in North America) wont do that since it's they are far too busy as it is and is solely to connect you (the customer).

Adding steps would be to rebuild how it is routed and we couldnt use 911 since it is a North American standard distress and emergency number; therefore illegal to tamper wit. We would have to rebuild it to something such as 991 or similar, Then we would have to subsequently tell people to dial 991 and not 911 emergency which is, well, illegal. Unless we got approval form the CRTC and all the PSAPs are updated to accept 991 calls as regular 911 calls.

We are looking into options to make this service available and error free, but until then it remains a blocked function.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby MikeD » 05/14/2010

How about just enabling *82 per call blocking? Who needs to block every call anyways?

You can leave *67 all call blocking disabled until you get the 911 issues resolved. - Or just change *67 to per call blocking like Ma Bell.

This sounds like an amicable solution for all parties involved.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby Liptonbrisk » 05/14/2010

MikeD wrote:- Or just change *67 to per call blocking like Ma Bell.


Yes, that's exactly what I need.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby zombie999 » 05/15/2010

admin wrote:To have what you suggested, unblock CID upon dialing 911, we would need to have our own emergency dialing number, and of course Northern911 (Emergency Dispatcher for ALL VoIP in North America) wont do that since it's they are far too busy as it is and is solely to connect you (the customer).


This is actually not correct. In Canada, yes most (if not all) VOIP providers send calls to a third party call centre (Northern911). They then read customer info and patch the call to the proper PSAP (what is real 911). This makes it simple and low cost for Canadian VOIP providers.

US providers, on the other hand, are required to send calls directly to your local PSAP. I used to have service with an US provider that included 911. To set it up you enter your address in the control panel and system translates it to a GPS location. According to that, they send the call to your local PSAP. You can even enter multiply profiles with different addresses. I have tested a 911 call with them, it was routed directly to 911 dispatch and operator was able to see my name/address/number.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_kris » 05/15/2010

Yes, zombie999 you are correct - Must have gotten carried away ;) ... Northern911 is the dispatcher for all of Canada's VoIP providers correct.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby Madwand » 05/18/2010

First of all, I'm never going to call 911 from my line, and I desperately don't want certain people to know my phone number, especially when I am working from home one day in a month and need to make 3-4 phone calls to customers for 30 seconds.

Would their be a way to show only one of my phone numbers if I have two ATA services from FPL? (meaning I have paid $50 twice and want to keep one of the numbers strictly private).
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_kris » 05/18/2010

I will look into that specific option. The issue is not whether you will or not call 911 on your line, say someone is being mugged in front of your house, or there is a car accident, you would usually call 911 (maybe you just sit there and watch, I don't know ;)) - Regardless, if you look at any other CLEC or ILEC they do not have an option to turn off 911 because it's built into their monthly charges, while we have no 'monthly charges' per-say, it is built into the system recursively and cannot be removed.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby MikeD » 05/18/2010

I guess it would depend on who was being mugged or if my car was involved in the accident as to whether or not I would take the time to block my caller-id before calling 911. ;) Am I being too pushy with wanting you to at least enable the per call blocking feature??? *67 like Ma Bell has would be awesome!!!

*** During your expected outage would be a great time to implement it *** Hint ... Hint....
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_kris » 05/18/2010

No of course not, not too pushy at all. And yes I guess it would depend on who was being mugged... Steve ;) ... But all joking aside, it's been marked as fixable but at a later date when we're not in the middle of major server maintenance [That planned downtime...], a site-redesign, and of course some fun new tools for you guys...
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FreePhoneUser » 05/27/2010

Did you guys change the call ID block?

When I make any call from my PAP2 ATA, my number is blocked. However, when I make a call from my software ATA (not the free call program provided by you guys) my caller ID shows.

Also, as far as I can recall I haven't made any changes to my ATA, and I know for sure that it used to send caller ID.

Maybe I'll try calling 911 from my PAP2 and see if they can see me, just kidding. ;)
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_steve » 05/27/2010

FreePhoneUser wrote:Did you guys change the call ID block?

When I make any call from my PAP2 ATA, my number is blocked. However, when I make a call from my software ATA (not the free call program provided by you guys) my caller ID shows.

Also, as far as I can recall I haven't made any changes to my ATA, and I know for sure that it used to send caller ID.

Maybe I'll try calling 911 from my PAP2 and see if they can see me, just kidding. ;)

No, we have not changed anything
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FreePhoneUser » 05/28/2010

FPL-steve wrote:
FreePhoneUser wrote:Did you guys change the call ID block?

When I make any call from my PAP2 ATA, my number is blocked. However, when I make a call from my software ATA (not the free call program provided by you guys) my caller ID shows.

Also, as far as I can recall I haven't made any changes to my ATA, and I know for sure that it used to send caller ID.

Maybe I'll try calling 911 from my PAP2 and see if they can see me, just kidding. ;)

No, we have not changed anything


Any idea how I am making caller ID restricted calls all of the sudden?
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby FONGO_kris » 05/28/2010

There are settings in some ATA's which are specifically designed to block Caller ID - Under Suplementary Service Subscription there are two, CID Block Serv: No and CID Serv: Yes
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby kumuthan » 05/28/2010

This happens to me too. I haven't changed anything in my ATA, but recently for past
few days, caller-ID shows as "blocked" when calling out. Any idea what's going on?
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby Jake » 05/28/2010

Have you tried dialing *68 ?

I think on my PAP2T I can block ID with *67, and unblock it with *68.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby kumuthan » 05/28/2010

It works (by dialing *68) Thanks. I am not sure how it got blocked.
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Re: Caller ID Blocked Disabled

Postby brentw » 05/29/2010

Yes this works for me now too.
I could never get it to work with my PAP2T but now all of a sudden it does. I didn't change anying on my device, it just started working on its own.

I just changed some settings on my device so *67 is only per call (like a land line) instead of the default that blocks for all calls until deactivated with *68.
Login to PAP2T settings -> Regional Tab:
Block CID Act Code: *81 (default is *67)
Block CID Deact Code: *82 (default is *68)
Block CID Per Call Act Code: *67 (default is *81)
Block CID Per Call Deact Code: *68 (default is *82)
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Re: Caller ID

Postby MikeD » 06/02/2010

Please changed the heading - it is not resolved! How did you come to the conclusion that it is resolved? Did FPL officially re-enable it?

I can confirm that I still don't have Caller ID block and I'm sure I am not the only one.

For those of you that somehow it is working for, any tips on how you got it to work - or maybe you'd like to double check just in case it worked only once as a fluke?
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Re: Caller ID

Postby brentw » 06/02/2010

Have you confirmed your address and contact info with someone on the phone at FPL?
I believe in order for it to be enabled you have to have confirmed your information.

I just confirmed it is still working.
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Re: Caller ID

Postby MikeD » 06/02/2010

I re-confirmed my address and contact info with tech support at FPL and agreed to the terms & conditions of E911 (although I already had to do this when I first signed up over a year ago). They said to post here to ask for help regarding a "special" setting change on my ATA because they either did not know what it was or did not want to disclose the information (perhaps to cover any legal implications regarding this whole e911 thing?). Although I did not get an official statement that CID block was re-enabled, hopefully the person they are referring to here can help me out.

Perhaps we can make a simple procedure for others to follow and make it a sticky so others can easily get help with this.

Thanks.
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Re: Caller ID

Postby brentw » 06/02/2010

On my PAP2T-NA which I'm guessing is similar to your SPA2102-NA I had to confirm that under the "Line 1 Tab"
All items under the "Supplementary Service Subscription" heading were set to "Yes"
The "Block CID Serv:" set to "Yes" is key I believe.

I don't think this applies at all since I'm pretty sure it is sort of the "status" or "toggle" of the current settings and not really a specific setting itself but will list it anyways as something to try...
Under the "User 1 Tab" I also have the following set:
"Block CID Setting": no
"CWCID Setting": yes
"CID setting": yes
again I dont' really know how these ones affect things....


Also if you didn't make the changes I listed above for the *67 and *81 settings etc, then you would need to do the default *81 to block the CID _per_ call (again assuming the SPA2102 and PAP2T are similar settings).


Update:
I just played with the "User 1 Tab" and yes the Block CID Setting goes to "yes" if I enter *81 on my phone (the default before my setting changes above would be *67)
(And of course make sure you have the phone on so you hear a dial tone before you push the *81)
You need to hit the refresh button in your web browser for that status change to show under the "User 1 Tab".
Then doing *82 (default *68) will change it back to "no" (again need to do a refresh of the web page to show the change)

So a good way for you to test would be go to "User 1 Tab" and set "Block CID Settings" to "yes".
This should be forcing the blocking of caller-id, but I still think you need to have "Block CID Serv:" under the "Line 1 Tab" set to "yes" in order for the blocking option to be enabled on your device.
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Re: Caller ID

Postby MikeD » 06/02/2010

You are correct, the SPA2102 & PAP2 are very similar and have similar web interfaces.

Unfortunately, I have tried your suggested settings but CID blocking still does not work.

You're right, the "User 1" tab, under "Supplementary Service Settings", "Block CID Setting:" is just a current status and not a specific setting. It does switch for me when I try to block/unblock my CID but the receiving call display always gets my CID info every time.

I am starting to lean towards my original thoughts that it's something FPL has to change at their end because it worked before and there has been no changes at my end.
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