3 Mbps cable internet is good enough for freephoneline?

[excell99]

i want to use FPL, but i have some question regarding the internet speed as below:

1) is 3 Mbps (download speed) & 256 Kbps (upload speed) good enough for freephoneline or i have to use 18 Mbps (download speed) & 512 Kbps (upload speed) for freephoneline ?

2) is anyone useing 3m cable internet with free phoneline right now? what is the sound qulity?


thanks

[TheHardy]

The softphone app is free to download -- and an account costs you NOTHING to set up other than time. There are so many variables in your setup, such as ping, jitter, firewall and other stuff that it is impossible to say yes or no.

Download the app, see if it goes or not! Most you will lose is 10-15 mins of your time.

For the record, I am using a WIFI datastick (WIND of all things!!!) and I get acceptable results on dialed out calls -- incoming ones are 50/50, but I can always call back. I lose some audio upfront at the start of the call, but as it progresses it gets better. There are still times when it gets choppy if the connection "jittters" but overall it is fairly stable.

I am not sure what kind of actual speeds I am getting ...

PINGTEST.NET gives
"B" MOS: 4.35
ping 104ms
jitter 6ms

SPEEDTEST.NET gives
ping 163ms
DL 2.90 Mbps
UL 0.33 Mbps

[cu2o2o2]

i want to use FPL, but i have some question regarding the internet speed as below:

1) is 3 Mbps (download speed) & 256 Kbps (upload speed) good enough for freephoneline or i have to use 18 Mbps (download speed) & 512 Kbps (upload speed) for freephoneline ?

2) is anyone useing 3m cable internet with free phoneline right now? what is the sound qulity?


thanks

If you use an ATA with built-in router like the SPAx102 and that is connected directly to your stand-alone modem, you should be good with that speed assuming that your internet connection has low latency and jitter (you can use pingtest.net to find out). You can then connect a router to your ATA. This set up allows you to have all the needed bandwidth for your VOIP before anything else on your network for a near problem-free VOIP experience. You don't even need to forward ports...caveat is, these ATA/routers eat up quite a bit of your bandwidth due to their built-in VOIP QoS.

I was using the 256Kbps upload speed (with a 7Mbps download which does not matter much in VOIP...it is the lower speed that matters) when I first dipped into VOIP in early 2005 using a DVG-1120M (it was a MeGaCo ATA, not SIP) and I had no problem with voice quality. So yes, 3Mbps download and 256Kbps upload service is good enough.

[dibsmft]

i want to use FPL, but i have some question regarding the internet speed as below:

1) is 3 Mbps (download speed) & 256 Kbps (upload speed) good enough for freephoneline or i have to use 18 Mbps (download speed) & 512 Kbps (upload speed) for freephoneline ?

2) is anyone useing 3m cable internet with free phoneline right now? what is the sound quality?


thanks

Nominally 3 Mbps (download speed) & 256 Kbps (upload speed) should be good enough for Fongo but it is the 256 Kbps (upload speed) that can be iffy. Any significant uploads on your network may spoil your calls. If the real speed is 256 Kbits/sec for upload and nothing else uses the network at the same time for upload then you should be OK. With some SIP providers you can use low bandwidth codecs that can help but Fongo does not offer them and the sound is less good. I used 1.2 Gbits/sec down and 0.5 Gbit/sec upload for voip for years with excellent results.

[excell99]

thank you all.

it seem that a good router with QoS is critical for FPL.

i just quickly check the futureshop and find this one:

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... ea3a6een02

1)is anyone using D-Link Wireless N 300 Gigabit Router (DIR-651) for FPL?
2)is it good one or you hav any other recommendation?

thanks

[cu2o2o2]

Aside from clock frequency, RAM and flash memories, gigabit ports and wireless radio specs, I consider a home router good if it can be flashed with 3rd party software (Tomato, DD-WRT, etc.)...but that's just me!

I don't see that DIR-651 meets my criteria.

[CSCO]

Even 128kbps each direction would run the service. All it matters are three things

1. latency to sip server
2. jitter
3. packet loss

Your maximum bandwidth does not have definite relationship to factors above. I have 3M/512k and 15M/768k. Both are less than km apart and gives roughly same quality.

If you are on 128kbps, you will not have much room for anything else when you are on call. You have significant likelihood of affecting phone conversation as you have very little bandwidth remaining.

[excell99]

Aside from clock frequency, RAM and flash memories, gigabit ports and wireless radio specs, I consider a home router good if it can be flashed with 3rd party software (Tomato, DD-WRT, etc.)...but that's just me!

I don't see that DIR-651 meets my criteria.

How do you think Netgear Wireless N Router (WNR2000-200PAS)?

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... e94e22en02

thanks

[TheHardy]

As the others here have stated, a lot depends on what you are doing on your internet at the time you are on a call ... for me, I make sure that i bail out on everything but the VOIP and whatever else is critical (like a statically open web page or what not) and try not to surf or do anything other than maybe compose an email or two while I am on a call. This is one reason that INCOMING calls can be troublesome, as I scramble to shut down anything that is eating bandwidth.

So the OTHER traffic and the quality of your service really matter --- for example if you share wifi in the house with another suite, you can expect all kinds of issues. If you use torrents a lot, same thing. But if when you are using VOIP you tend to single-task it, you should be okay.

[excell99]

i find another Netgear Wireless N Router (WNR2000-200PAS) in futureshop.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... e94e22en02
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... ea3a6een02

D-Link Wireless N 300 Gigabit Router (DIR-651) or Netgear Wireless N Router (WNR2000-200PAS) which one is better? or you have another router to recommend?

thanks

[cu2o2o2]

i find another Netgear Wireless N Router (WNR2000-200PAS) in futureshop.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... e94e22en02
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... ea3a6een02

D-Link Wireless N 300 Gigabit Router (DIR-651) or Netgear Wireless N Router (WNR2000-200PAS) which one is better? or you have another router to recommend?

thanks

If I were to buy again based on my needs, I would still buy the Netgear WNR3500L...but this time the V2. Other than the upgraded 128MB RAM + 128 MB flash, it has the same specs as the V1 that I have. The V1 can be had for ~$67 from Best Buy, or the V2 from Amazon.ca for the same amount...$67 with free shipping.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/net ... ee97a8en02

http://www.amazon.ca/Netgear-RangeMax-W ... 324&sr=1-1

Now, if you need dual-band...then it is a different need from mine...and I can't help you there.

[j8van]

QoS is depending more on stability than bandwith, for an instance, you have:

An old 56kb dial-up connection but your FPL ATA is the only device;
An Extreme Highspeed Internet connection but there are a few devices sharing the service, some playing online games and some downloading stuffs;

As to QoS of FPL under these 2 cases, Dial-up wins!

[cu2o2o2]

QoS is depending more on stability than bandwith, for an instance, you have:

An old 56kb dial-up connection but your FPL ATA is the only device;
An Extreme Highspeed Internet connection but there are a few devices sharing the service, some playing online games and some downloading stuffs;

As to QoS of FPL under these 2 cases, Dial-up wins!

Okay, let's not create more confusion with VOIP than there is. The fact is...firstly, you need to have enough bandwidth to support the codec that your VOIP connection is using.

You can have a 56kbps connection with less than 3ms latency and jitter, however it is not enough to support the PCMU codec which BTW is used by FPL.

On a high-speed high-bandwidth connection (with <50ms latency and <10ms jitter like most Rogers connections are) with a device supporting QOS that is properly implemented, bandwidth usage can be prioritized for VOIP even with literally a hundred simultaneous torrents running, and will beat the 56kbps hands down.

So, now draw your conclusions...ugh, I think I already did it for you.

[seagame2001]

i want to use FPL, but i have some question regarding the internet speed as below:

1) is 3 Mbps (download speed) & 256 Kbps (upload speed) good enough for freephoneline or i have to use 18 Mbps (download speed) & 512 Kbps (upload speed) for freephoneline ?

2) is anyone useing 3m cable internet with free phoneline right now? what is the sound qulity?


thanks

All right I can answer this for you no problem cause my older brother use Linksys ATA voip and the router is Linksys WRT54G flashed with DD-WRT firmware

His internet speed is 3Mbps and he got great audio on the phone

[dibsmft]

That is true for the download speed but it is the upload speed that really matters as it is generally much lower and around 0.5 Mbits/sec. 0.25 Mbits/sec is more than enough for SIP/voip as long as not too many other things are using upload bandwidth. If you can use the low bandwidth audio codecs then even dialup can give reasonable sound (used it for years myself for calls to the UK).

[j8van]

QoS is depending more on stability than bandwith, for an instance, you have:

An old 56kb dial-up connection but your FPL ATA is the only device;
An Extreme Highspeed Internet connection but there are a few devices sharing the service, some playing online games and some downloading stuffs;

As to QoS of FPL under these 2 cases, Dial-up wins!

Okay, let's not create more confusion with VOIP than there is. The fact is...firstly, you need to have enough bandwidth to support the codec that your VOIP connection is using.

You can have a 56kbps connection with less than 3ms latency and jitter, however it is not enough to support the PCMU codec which BTW is used by FPL.

On a high-speed high-bandwidth connection (with <50ms latency and <10ms jitter like most Rogers connections are) with a device supporting QOS that is properly implemented, bandwidth usage can be prioritized for VOIP even with literally a hundred simultaneous torrents running, and will beat the 56kbps hands down.

So, now draw your conclusions...ugh, I think I already did it for you.

You are right. my instance was a bit extreme.

[excell99]

I narrowed down to two router. which one do you think is better for FPL?

http://www.amazon.com/Amped-Wireless-Wi ... B005UBNH18

http://www.amazon.ca/Netgear-RangeMax-W ... 324&sr=1-1


thanks

[bridonca]

I narrowed down to two router. which one do you think is better for FPL?

http://www.amazon.com/Amped-Wireless-Wi ... B005UBNH18

http://www.amazon.ca/Netgear-RangeMax-W ... 324&sr=1-1


thanks

The WNR3500L is a good router, especially with the DD WRT firmware. I am not familiar with the Amped router. Pay no attention to the power of a router. Most times it does not translate to much in real life situation. You will get just as good results with a cheap router like this, when flashed to DD-WRT. I should add the DD-WRT does QOS if that is your thing. http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/ ... 75bb6een02

[excell99]

thank you for your recommendation. it looks like a good solution for me

[Bloodsong]

Reading this topic hurt my head, so much bickering back and forth.
Stick to the facts, read what's been said, don't repeat facts already evidenced in the prior knowledge unless as a re-cap whereby you will include ALL facts that are previously evidenced.

Fact:
Jitter is more important than bandwidth or latency
Fact:
PCMU and PCMA (g.711a/u) also known as U-law and A-law codec perform 8kHz sampling at a rate of 8b/sample (64kbps)
Fact:
VoIP is a symmetrical protocol (meaning it requires 64kbps in each direction)
Fact:
Many routers implement a poor or broken version of 802.1p (QoS standard protocol)
Fact:
DD-WRT and various other open source based firmware replacements have functioning QoS protocol stacks
Fact:
QoS can be difficult to understand how to implement correctly, and there are several on the forum here who can help you (Myself included) to come up with the correct QoS for you.
Fact:
802.1q (VLAN) protocol can be used in addition to standard QoS to prioritize bandwidth.
Fact:
When prioritizing bandwidth you must consider not only the amount of bandwidth required, but what order packets are to be sorted in. (VoIP should be given the highest level of order to ensure lowest possible jitter and latency) Both are affected depending upon traffic on the network.
Fact:
While high order must be ensured 64kbps is all that is required for the data (add overhead for ethernet frames/TCP/IP encapsulation) and remember that 802.1q (VLAN) includes 4bytes of it's own, you end up needing just a few bytes extra. Try to dedicate 72kbps to the VoIP device. (I try to keep everything in multiples of 8 for binary data 8b=1B)
Fact:
Torrents are notoriously difficult to control with QoS/Packetflow and firewalls from the router, try to ensure that torrent programs are individually set to use a low upload bandwidth. (You have 256 available, make sure they're set to <128)

Aside:
VoIP over Dial-up is entirely possible with some of the lower-bandwidth codecs such as GSM requiring a mere 6.5-13kbps. (This is why cell-phone call quality sucks, combined with the poor latency and jitter of mid-long range wireless communications)

[TheHardy]

Ahhh, we've missed you! Thanks for taking the time to clear it up into one neat and tidy bundle!

[excell99]

Reading this topic hurt my head, so much bickering back and forth.
Stick to the facts, read what's been said, don't repeat facts already evidenced in the prior knowledge unless as a re-cap whereby you will include ALL facts that are previously evidenced.

Fact:
Jitter is more important than bandwidth or latency
Fact:
PCMU and PCMA (g.711a/u) also known as U-law and A-law codec perform 8kHz sampling at a rate of 8b/sample (64kbps)
Fact:
VoIP is a symmetrical protocol (meaning it requires 64kbps in each direction)
Fact:
Many routers implement a poor or broken version of 802.1p (QoS standard protocol)
Fact:
DD-WRT and various other open source based firmware replacements have functioning QoS protocol stacks
Fact:
QoS can be difficult to understand how to implement correctly, and there are several on the forum here who can help you (Myself included) to come up with the correct QoS for you.
Fact:
802.1q (VLAN) protocol can be used in addition to standard QoS to prioritize bandwidth.
Fact:
When prioritizing bandwidth you must consider not only the amount of bandwidth required, but what order packets are to be sorted in. (VoIP should be given the highest level of order to ensure lowest possible jitter and latency) Both are affected depending upon traffic on the network.
Fact:
While high order must be ensured 64kbps is all that is required for the data (add overhead for ethernet frames/TCP/IP encapsulation) and remember that 802.1q (VLAN) includes 4bytes of it's own, you end up needing just a few bytes extra. Try to dedicate 72kbps to the VoIP device. (I try to keep everything in multiples of 8 for binary data 8b=1B)
Fact:
Torrents are notoriously difficult to control with QoS/Packetflow and firewalls from the router, try to ensure that torrent programs are individually set to use a low upload bandwidth. (You have 256 available, make sure they're set to <128)

Aside:
VoIP over Dial-up is entirely possible with some of the lower-bandwidth codecs such as GSM requiring a mere 6.5-13kbps. (This is why cell-phone call quality sucks, combined with the poor latency and jitter of mid-long range wireless communications)

it is really helpful. thank you very very much.

[TheHardy]

That's one reason we missed him so much!!