New Mtl-438738 and To-647873 #s are not local: other phoneco

[j8van]

I helped my friends in Toronto and Montreal registered FPL service.

I noticed that FPL has recently released some new numbers as 438-738-xxxx for Montreal, and 647-873-xxxx for Toronto, so my friends got their numbers as they wished.

However when they placed calls to these numbers using other phone company services (Telus, Bell, local numbers, at the same city), their phone bills showed these are long distance calls.

They finally got the refund because Telus and Bell admitted these FPL numbers are local but they seem not able to fix the problem --

Some CSR say that they can do nothing this moment but ask these customers phone in every month to get the "mistaken long distance charge" back;
Some CSR say that FPL should "register these 438-738-xxxx, 647-873-xxxx numbers as Montreal, Toronto local", which I really don't know what it means (are they not local indeed?)

Is this a problem that FPL can fix? Thanks!

[TheHardy]

Some CSR say that they can do nothing this moment but ask these customers phone in every month to get the "mistaken long distance charge" back;
Some CSR say that FPL should "register these 438-738-xxxx, 647-873-xxxx numbers as Montreal, Toronto local", which I really don't know what it means (are they not local indeed?)

Is this a problem that FPL can fix? Thanks!

As the rating of the call (local or toll) is determined SOLELY by the telco that those people are using to CALL TO the FPL #, the error lies with the "Rates & Routing" (tariff section of the billing department) _AT_ those specific carriers.

The issue MUST (and can ONLY) be resolved by THEIR customer service departments AT those carriers. It is not an FPL/DV/Fongo issue AT ALL.

Fibernetics (Fongo's parent) applies for the NPA-NXX thru CNAC, it is approved and issued. Before Fibernetics can ACTIVATE it, CNAC send out updates (via Telcordia, the US-version of CNAC that handles telco documentation/updates etc) to the affected carriers. Whether THOSE carriers chose to implement it or not is THEIR doing.

To contrast this, when _WE_ have an issue where from FPL we cannot call a number that SHOULD be local, we have to get FPL to fix it (Hi Steve! Hi Mike! Hi Neil!), not whomever OWNS the number that WE are unable to call ...

It is a pain in the arse for sure, especially if you have to deal with both BELL and BELL MOBILITY (because they have SEPARATE departments). Just be very glad that they don't have to try to deal with WIND, because that is an entire exercise in futility!!!!

Has this cleared it up?

[TheHardy]

Further to my above, as I have access to some of the information, this is a snippet of the actual data file that is provided to the various telco's IN ADVANCE of any new NPA NXX being activated .... (I have added spaces for clarity!!!)

438 738 E 051412 EOCA MTRLPQ GZ1MD 464D 888 MONTREAL PQ Y
647 873 E 051112 EOCA TOROON XNXNX 464D 888 TORONTO ON Y

In order from left to right ...
NPA
NXX
E = Effective (new code!) Others are "D" for DELETE or "M" for MODIFY
Date MM/DD/YY
type of "code" (NPA-NXX) - EOCA is "end office code,
CLLI of RateCentre
Switch
Carrier Code (Fibernetics in this case)
LATA (all of Canada is 888)
RateCentre Name
Province
LNP capable Y/N

Sorry to be so technical, but as this is put out in advance (this is from the first working day in APRIL that this is from), there is no reason for any of the affected carriers to NOT have it up and running correctly by the InService Date of 14 May/11 May as indicated....

[TheHardy]

I should add, that I have the same issue here in metro Vancouver with a lot of the new exchanges. Of the carriers that I have to deal with, Telus and Telus Mobility are the easiest (as I know exactly how to get xfered to the right department, and I have a 25+% chance of getting someone that remembers me from previous calls). WIND is the worst, all the rest are kinda so-so.

None of them really move fast when you call in to complain/let them know that they have missed adding some new NPA-NXX's ... the only exception, as I say, is with the one carrier where I already KNOW the people that I need to talk to ... it helps that I have all the information handy.

That said, when you call in, it is a "Rates & Routing" problem ... a new local exchange (or NPA-NXX/Central Office Code) ...
Be prepared to give the NPA-NXX, ratecentre name and carrier (FIBERNETICS) ... no need to tell them it is a VOIP thing.
They also need to know that is is a working NPA-NXX (and the line number) and that they can call it to verify it as active from THEIR end.
It helps to be able to tell them what error message you are getting when you try to call it , and what dial-string you are using ...
ie:
10-D gives "The number you are calling is long distance, please hang up and redial using 1 or 0 or call your operator for assistance"
11-D gives "Your call cannot be completed as dialed, please try your call again, or dial 6-1-1 for assistance"
or if it does complete properly with 11-D vs 10-D.

Sometimes, calling the OPERATOR to assist in placing the call can work as well, but you may be subject to the Op-Asst charges ... how you handle it with the Operator makes a difference, and sometimes getting THEM to log it as a trouble-ticket (if they will!) with the NOC (Network Operations Centre) will speed things up ...

If you get a good operator, explain the problem, they'll punch the # up, see what their system has, notice that it may be wrong, connect you (Free of surcharge) and then log the trouble ticket on your behalf.

Doing an Op-Asst and a call in to support myself, I had 778-801 working on Telus Mobility within 3 hours one time ... but that is NOT par for the course. A week seems average, and Rogers Wireless took 3 MONTHS on one. I am still unable to call 778-801 on WIND after over 8 months ...

[j8van]

TheHardy, you are such a good man!
Your answer covers all my questions, I like these technical express.

Yes Telus & Bell agreed to fix this problem "soon", but you know how long their "soon" will be, so, my friends just didn't wait, they deleted the FPL accounts and re-register new numbers belong to the ajacent cities around Mtrl and To...

By far there is no more long distance charge again!

Thanks again TheHardy, you contribute a lot for this community!

[TheHardy]

TheHardy, you are such a good man!
Your answer covers all my questions, I like these technical express.

Yes Telus & Bell agreed to fix this problem "soon", but you know how long their "soon" will be, so, my friends just didn't wait, they deleted the FPL accounts and re-register new numbers belong to the ajacent cities around Mtrl and To...

By far there is no more long distance charge again!

Thanks again TheHardy, you contribute a lot for this community!

J8 --- thanks man ... I try. I know sometimes it comes out as "techno-speak" but when you call in to 6-1-1 (customer support), if you are speaking their lingo, you will get less run-around and BS. Happy that my detail has helped out a bit.

The bigger issue is (and should be) that these other telcos are NOT putting in the information in a timely manner (and we DO have the same problem with Fongo updating theirs too, but our channel of support here gets it done usually within 24-48 hours during work days -- DAAMN fast turnaround --- KUDOS Fongo team!).

What is disturbing (and this torch should be taken by someone AT Fongo) is that the "Big Telcos" seem to be doing it mainly to the SMALLER telco's activating new exchanges. Telus puts the new Bell, Videotron, Rogers etc NPA-NXX's in pretty damn fast, but there is _ALWAYS_ problems with Fibernetics, Iristel, Globalive, Distributel NPA-NXX.... all the smaller upstart players ... I would not call what Telus/Bell/Rogers/etc do as predatory or discriminatory, as that would be ILLEGAL, but if someone from Fongo were to contact the CRTC or other umbrella group for CLECs and just pass along that "Hey, users of our service and our numbers report an alarmingly high rate of their numbers not being programmed into the competitor's rate and routing tables resulting in failed calls and potential lost revenue and unsatisfied customers" ...

But that has to come from Fongo as the CLEC affected ... us as individuals have very little clout.

Ideally, your friends would complain not only to their other telco's that they have filed the trouble reports with, but also to the CRTC as the watchdog and explain -- hey, it's a pain in the ass, we've had to change our numbers etc etc ...

That is the only way to BEAT the big telcos into smartening up! *sigh*