OBI200, which proxy server?

[streetcore]

I've been using freephoneline for a few years with the Linksys PAP2T, but bought an OBI200 today. I'm reading the setup instructions available here, but I'm confused about which proxy server to use.

My modem is a Thomson DHG536 and my router is an older D-Link DIR-615 with no option to disable SIP ALG. Should I use voip4.freephoneline.ca? I'm a bit confused about whether the section below from the instructions apply to me:

i) If you a) don’t have your own router with SIP ALG disabled AND b) are using a modem/router
combo that has SIP ALG or Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI) enabled with no way for you to
disable it (for example, if you’re using Rogers’ Hitron modem/router combos that are older
than the CODA-4582 series) you will want to use voip4.freephoneline.ca:6060 only. That is, if
you’re experiencing one-way audio issues when your ATA is registered with
voip.freephoneline.ca or voip2.freephoneline.ca, you’re going to want to try
voip4.freephoneline.ca:6060.

[Liptonbrisk]

I've been using freephoneline for a few years with the Linksys PAP2T, but bought an OBI200 today. I'm reading the setup instructions available here,

More specifically, you should be using Version 1.43 of the PDF guide located here: http://forum.fongo.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... =25#p74972.

my router is an older D-Link DIR-615 with no option to disable SIP ALG.

Before I write anything further, whatever FPL server you used successfully with your PAP2T in conjunction with your router should also work fine with an OBi200.
So, I would just use what you used before.


The option to disable SIP ALG is available for your router: http://www.support.dlink.com/emulators/ ... dv_dmz.htm
The option is found under "Application Level Gateway."

Refer to the bottom of this webpage on how to disable SIP ALG: https://support.onsip.com/hc/en-us/arti ... s-N-Router (this site has nothing to do with FPL, and you can otherwise ignore it, except to refer to the pics at the bottom).

If you don't see the option to disable SIP ALG, then you may need to update router firmware:
http://support.dlink.ca/ProductInfo.aspx?m=DIR-615
Click downloads, choose the right hardware version, and update firmware.

If you do the firmware upgrade, save the configuration first: http://support.dlink.com/emulators/dir6 ... system.htm
If need be, you should be able to restore your settings.

I, obviously, refuse to be held responsible for any issues arising from a failed firmware update.

Afterwards, log into the admin page of your router. Click the "Advanced" tab and then "Firewall Settings".
Scroll down, and uncheck SIP. Click "save settings", and reboot your router.

Should I use voip4.freephoneline.ca? I'm a bit confused about whether the section below from the instructions apply to me:

The purpose of voip4.freephoneline.ca:6060 is to circumvent faulty SIP ALG functions in routers. Refer to point #1 in the preamble on page 1 of the PDF guide.

The most important part of what you quoted is this:

"If you’re experiencing one-way audio issues when your ATA is registered with
voip.freephoneline.ca or voip2.freephoneline.ca, you’re going to want to try
voip4.freephoneline.ca:6060."

If you can't hear callers, but they can hear you (or vice versa), you're experiencing a one-way audio issue.

[streetcore]

Thanks for the quick reply. I just upgraded the firmware on my router (Hardware Version: B2) and unchecked SIP under Firewall Settings. I also used voip.freephoneline.ca in the OBI settings and everything seemed to work all right on a couple quick test calls. The only thing that's not working is the outbound Caller ID Name. I entered one in Calling Features–>CallerIDName, but it's not showing on my cell phone when I call it.

I'll try to figure out that out tomorrow.

Thanks again.

[Liptonbrisk]

I also used voip.freephoneline.ca in the OBI settings and everything seemed to work all right on a couple quick test calls.

Test both incoming and outgoing calls.

By the way, you might want to update your forum profile with the devices you're currently using.

The only thing that's not working is the outbound Caller ID Name. I entered one in Calling Features–>CallerIDName, but it's not showing on my cell phone when I call it.

I'm not sure if anything other than Rogers Wireless (and it subsidiaries) supports inbound CNAM on cell phones. I know Telus Mobility and its subsidiaries don't. I know Bell Mobility didn't in the past.

To avoid confusion, do this instead with a smartphone (even if you're with Rogers):

a) Download and register the free Fongo Mobile smartphone app: http://get.fongo.com/

b) Delete your freephoneline number from anywhere in your contact list on your smartphone (both in your smartphone's contact list and in the Fongo Mobile app). Otherwise the Fongo Mobile app will get info from your contact list.

c) Call your Fongo Mobile number using freephoneline

d) Check incoming caller ID Name using the Fongo Mobile app

If you don't have a smartphone, ask a friend who does to install Fongo Mobile and perform the instructions outlined above.

[streetcore]

Tested again this morning with a call to and from a land line. The Caller ID Name worked fine and call quality seemed all right. I guess I'll know more when I actually put it to use on real calls.

I do have the Fongo app on my cell and I'll look into that later. I'm not too concerned about what displays on my phone, but what other people see when I call them.

Thanks again for your quick replies!

[Liptonbrisk]

Tested again this morning with a call to and from a land line. The Caller ID Name worked fine and call quality seemed all right.

Then outbound CNAM is working as intended.

I do have the Fongo app on my cell and I'll look into that later. I'm not too concerned about what displays on my phone

If outbound CNAM from FPL displays in Fongo Mobile, then outbound CNAM is working as intended and will also display on phones using services that support CNAM properly. Fongo Mobile is useful just for testing purposes here.

I'm glad things are working well for you.

[streetcore]

Maybe it's an odd coincidence, but I lost my wifi twice today and had to reboot my router and modem so I could connect my laptop, phone, etc to the internet. I tried calling my fpl number after the wifi went down and all I got was dead air. The second time things went down I rebooted the modem and router to get the wifi working again, but left the OBI200 unplugged. When I called my fpl I still got dead air. After I plugged the OBI back in the number would ring and go to voice mail as usual.

Any idea what might be causing this? Should I be looking for a new router? Is there anyway to ensure calls go to voicemail if I'm having network problems at home?

[Liptonbrisk]

Maybe it's an odd coincidence, but I lost my wifi twice today and had to reboot my router and modem so I could connect my laptop, phone, etc to the internet. I tried calling my fpl number after the wifi went down and all I got was dead air.

Proper device boot order is always modem-->router (wait for it to be fully up and running)-->ATA
If one of those devices is rebooted or turned on, out of the order listed above, you
may experience problems.

Always check registration status in your ATA when you encounter problems. If your ATA wasn't registered, I suspect you didn't wait long enough for voicemail to kick in. If your ATA was registered, you're likely dealing with an issue described below.

http://forum.fongo.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... =25#p74972

Refer to Point #6 on page 3 of the PDF guide:

Thanks to Mango, many of us now understand that in order for ATAs to remain registered and working properly with a VoIP SIP provider like Freephoneline,
in particular after power failures, the following conditions must be met:

UDP Unreplied Timeout (in your router) < NAT Keep-alive Interval (in your ATA; for Obihai ATAs this is X_KeepAliveExpires) < UDP Assured Timeout (in
your router) < SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time (or RegisterRetryInterval in Obihai ATAs)

“<“ means less than.

When a modem leases a new IP address, a problem can arise where prior associations using the old IP address are maintained in the router. When the ATA
attempts to communicate using the old IP address, the response is unreplied, and then if the UDP Unreplied timeout is greater than the Keep Alive Interval (and
UDP Unreplied timeout is often set to 30 by default in consumer routers) a problem arises where the corrupted connection persists. If UDP Unreplied timeout is,
for example, 10, and the NAT Keep Alive Interval is 20, then the corrupted connection will timeout or close. A new connection will be created, and everything
will work fine.

Another problem can occur when the Keep-Alive interval is greater than UDP Assured Timeout (often 180 by default in consumer routers): the NAT hole will
close due to the ATA not communicating frequently enough with the SIP server. In turn, incoming calls may, intermittently, not reach the ATA. Again,
X_Keepalives expires is supposed to be 20 with FPL.

Getting access to both UDP Unreplied Timeout and UDP Assured Timeout settings in consumer routers may be difficult, if not impossible. Asuswrt-Merlin, third
party firmware for Asus routers, does offer easy access to these two settings, which are found under Tools-->Other settings. In part, for this reason, I tend to use
Asus routers that support Asuswrt-Merlin: visit https://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/about/. However, my understanding is that third party Tomato firmware has these two settings as well. So if your router supports
third party Tomato firmware, that may be another option.

The keep alive interval for FPL is 20. The SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time is 120. I use 10 for UDP Unreplied Timeout and 117 for UDP Assured
Timeout.

The second time things went down I rebooted the modem and router to get the wifi working again, but left the OBI200 unplugged.

True device registration status is found in the ATA (Dial ***1. Enter that IP address into a web browser. Navigate to Status-->System Status-->
SPfpl Service Status-->Status) and not on FPL's website. But it's a good idea to check registration status in both places when you're experiencing this problem.


There are two scenarios worth examining:

1) Both FPL's website (after logging in at https://www.freephoneline.ca/showSipSettings) and the ATA indicate there's no registration. All incoming calls should go straight to voicemail immediately.

2) FPL's website indicates your ATA is registered (but it really isn't) while your ATA indicates FPL is not registered (your ATA's status is always correct; FPL's website isn't). With an incoming call, FPL's server attempts to send data to your ATA, but can't. There's delay while a failed negotiation takes place. Then the call eventually goes to voicemail if you wait long enough.
After the 3600 second registration period expires, FPL's website will finally (and properly) indicate your ATA is not registered (provided it's unplugged). See #1.

When I called my fpl I still got dead air.

In your second test, I suspect you didn't wait long enough before voicemail kicked in. Otherwise, I can't reproduce what you're experiencing.

If you decide to use third party Tomato firmware (or get a router that supports it), I will not be able to help you with it because I'm not familiar with Tomato. But I did explain where to make changes to UDP timeout settings if you ever decide to use Asuswrt-Merlin: https://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/about.
When those settings are correct, I don't need to care what order I boot my modem, router, and ATA. Even if the ATA is failing registration because my modem is down, when the modem comes back up, after 120 seconds (failed registtration retry timer), the ATA registers with FPL perfectly fine. And I have no issues if I reboot
my router out of the device order I outlined.

[streetcore]

Thanks again for all your help. There's a lot to digest there, so I'll have to take some time to read it over a few times.

[streetcore]

My wifi just went down again

As per the setup instructions, I have the keep alive interval for FPL set to 20 and the SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time (RegisterRetryInterval in Obihai) is 120. If I can't set the UDP Unreplied Timeout and UDP Assured Timeout on my router (D-Link DIR-615), is my only option to buy a new router? I was looking at the Asus routers and the RT-N66U looks like the cheapest currently available in Canada that works with Asuswrt-Merlin. It's on sale for $100 plus tax and shipping at newegg. I just spent almost $90 on the OBI and really didn't expect to have to spend another hundred bucks to get it working.

[Liptonbrisk]

My wifi just went down again

As per the setup instructions, I have the keep alive interval for FPL set to 20 and the SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time (RegisterRetryInterval in Obihai) is 120. If I can't set the UDP Unreplied Timeout and UDP Assured Timeout on my router (D-Link DIR-615), is my only option to buy a new router?

First, I certainly hope you're not using a wi-fi connection (OBiWiFi) to connect to your ATA. That just introduces another point of failure. It's much better to use a wired, ethernet connection to connect your ATA to your router.


1. The first option is to reboot modem, followed by router (wait for it to be fully up and running), and then, lastly, the ATA whenever you reboot devices. If you're just rebooting your router, at the very least, reboot the ATA after your router is fully up and running. You can reboot the ATA three different ways: https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=150 (the same instructions apply to an OBi200).

Also keep in mind that the RegisterRetryInterval is your ATA is 120 seconds. You should be logging into your ATA and checking registration status as I mentioned previously in another post in this thread. If your ATA is unregistered with FPL after rebooting your router, wait at least two minutes to see if your ATA becomes registered. You should be checking registration status reported by your ATA whenever you have problems.


2. The second option is to guess what your UDP unreplied and UDP Assured Timeouts are in your router, which probably isn't that useful or accurate (guessing).

You need to satisfy this equation:
UDP Unreplied Timeout (in your router) < NAT Keep-alive Interval (in your ATA; for Obihai ATAs this is X_KeepAliveExpires) < UDP Assured Timeout (in
your router) < SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time (or RegisterRetryInterval in Obihai ATAs)

“<“ means less than.

UDP Unreplied Timeout (in your router) < 20 (in your ATA) < UDP Assured Timeout (in your router) < 120 (in your ATA)

These values here (20 and 120) are in seconds and should be set properly if you followed the PDF guide.

It is safe to increase your SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time, but it's not a good idea to lower it. More than 5 registration attempts in a 5 minute period will result in a temporary IP ban from FPL's server.
SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time set at 120 means that when registration with FPL fails, your ATA will attempt to register again in 2 minutes. So you can increase that value in order to satisfy the above equation/conditions if need be. A lot of routers, but certainly not all, default to 180 for UDP Assured Timeout. The DLINK DIR-855 appears to default to 300s.


http://support.dlink.com/emulators/dir855/Status.html
Time Out
The number of seconds of idle time until the router considers the session terminated. The initial value of Time Out depends on the type and state of the connection.

300 seconds
UDP connections."


I'm going to guess the DIR-615 also defaults to 300. So, you could raise RegisterRetryInterval (shown in the pic on page 17) to 310. Just keep in mind that in point #1 in this post, you would need to be waiting 5.17 minutes (and not 2 minutes) before your ATA attempts to register with FPL after a registration failure.

A lot of routers default to 30s for the UDP Unreplied Timeout, which is still too high for VoIP since a lot of ATAs use a Keep-alive default value around 20s or slightly lower. So, you could raise X_KeepAliveExpires (page 21 for pic and page 25 for instructions) to 35 or 40. But I have no clue what the UDP Unreplied Timeout is for your router, so I'm just guessing. If you want to be consistent, also change KeepAliveInterval (found on page 21) to the same value as X_KeepAliveExpires. The problem is for all I know your router's UDP unreplied timeout could be 60 seconds or some other value.

Even if you do make these changes, you may still experience problems, since I'm just guessing what the UDP timeout settings are in your router.

I just spent almost $90 on the OBI

That's unfortunate. Newegg.ca (the only official retailer in Canada, other than Acrovoice, which no longer sells OBi200 or OBi202 ATAs) sells Obihai ATAs, and they typically go on sale about once per quarter. So it's not uncommon to find people buying OBi200s for $50-$55+tax when they go on sale.

3. Your third option is to buy a router that supports Asuswrt-Merlin or Tomato (possibly DD-WRT also has the option to adjust both UDP timeout settings, but the last time I checked only one UDP timeout setting was easily accessible in DD-WRT. The other one could be adjusted but doing so required more work). However, again, I'm not going to be able to help you with Tomato (nor DD-WRT). I can tell you that I'm using an Asus RT-AC3200 running Asus Merlin and don't have problems after adjusting both UDP timeout settings. Other people I know have Asus RT-AC68U routers running Asus Merlin and do not have problems either after adjusting UDP timeout settings--with the understanding that it can take two minutes for the ATA to register with FPL after registration failure (that is, if the ATA attempts to register while the router is down, registration will fail--and it will take up to two minutes for the ATA to register again). There are non-Asus routers that can run Tomato firmware, so you're not necessarily stuck with buying Asus routers that work with Asuswrt-Merlin.

But I certainly don't get corrupted NAT associations/connections, due to UDP timeout issues, between my router and my ATA after my router reboots.


Keep in mind that when you wrote, "The second time things went down I rebooted the modem and router to get the wifi working again, but left the OBI200 unplugged"--that scenario, I don't think has anything to do with UDP timeout settings. I think you just didn't wait long enough before FPL's voicemail kicked in (Scenario B applies).

There are two scenarios worth examining:

A) Both FPL's website (after logging in at https://www.freephoneline.ca/showSipSettings) and the ATA indicate there's no registration. All incoming calls should go straight to voicemail immediately.

B) FPL's website indicates your ATA is registered (but it really isn't) while your ATA indicates FPL is not registered (registration status reported by your ATA is always correct; FPL's website isn't always correct). With an incoming call, FPL's server attempts to send data to your ATA, but can't. There's delay while a failed negotiation takes place. Then the call eventually goes to voicemail if you wait long enough.
After the 3600 second registration period expires, FPL's website will finally (and properly) indicate your ATA is not registered (provided it's unplugged), and then you can refer to scenario A at that point.


When you wrote, "Maybe it's an odd coincidence, but I lost my wifi twice today and had to reboot my router and modem so I could connect my laptop, phone, etc to the internet. I tried calling my fpl number after the wifi went down and all I got was dead air", I think you're dealing with the router related issue I've been describing, provided your ATA was plugged in and registered with FPL. If your ATA wasn't registered with FPL, you could have been dealing with scenario B again. It's always important to know what your ATA is reporting for registration status. Obviously, if it's unplugged, it's not registered.

[streetcore]

First, I certainly hope you're not using a wi-fi connection (OBiWiFi) to connect to your ATA. That just introduces another point of failure. It's much better to use a wired, ethernet connection to connect your ATA to your router.

I am using an ethernet cable to connect the ATA to the router. I didn't even know there was an OBiWiFi option.

1. The first option is to reboot modem, followed by router (wait for it to be fully up and running), and then, lastly, the ATA whenever you reboot devices. If you're just rebooting your router, at the very least, reboot the ATA after your router is fully up and running. You can reboot the ATA three different ways: https://www.ukvoipforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=150 (the same instructions apply to an OBi200).

I generally follow the router, modem, ata, reboot sequence. When the wifi went down last night it was late, so I just unplugged the ATA and rebooted the router to see what would happen. My wifi worked again after that and I was able to connect to the internet to post my message above. I left the ATA unplugged over night (it's still unplugged), but when I got up this morning wifi was down again and I couldn't connect to the internet. (Maybe the OBI isn't the problem?) So I unplugged the router and modem, then plugged in the modem and waited a minute before plugging the router back in. Wifi was fine again after that. I'll leave the ATA unplugged today to see if the wifi stops working again.

The status on the FPL site says "disconnected" and calls are going straight to voicemail.

If I don't have any problems with the wifi I'll plug the ATA back in and try changing some of the settings as you recommended. Otherwise I'll start looking for a new router.

I just spent almost $90 on the OBI

That's unfortunate. Newegg.ca (the only official retailer in Canada, other than Acrovoice, which no longer sells OBi200 or OBi202 ATAs) sells Obihai ATAs, and they typically go on sale about once per quarter. So it's not uncommon to find people buying OBi200s for $50-$55+tax when they go on sale.

I bought the OBI from newegg for $69.99, but the total with tax and shipping was almost $90. That's a sale price (46% off) and I've been watching it for awhile and haven't seen it any lower for awhile now.

There are two scenarios worth examining:

A) Both FPL's website (after logging in at https://www.freephoneline.ca/showSipSettings) and the ATA indicate there's no registration. All incoming calls should go straight to voicemail immediately.

B) FPL's website indicates your ATA is registered (but it really isn't) while your ATA indicates FPL is not registered (registration status reported by your ATA is always correct; FPL's website isn't always correct). With an incoming call, FPL's server attempts to send data to your ATA, but can't. There's delay while a failed negotiation takes place. Then the call eventually goes to voicemail if you wait long enough.
After the 3600 second registration period expires, FPL's website will finally (and properly) indicate your ATA is not registered (provided it's unplugged), and then you can refer to scenario A at that point.

Unfortunately, when my wifi goes down I can't check the status of either the ATA or the FPL site because I have no network connection and can't connect to the internet.

Thanks again for all our assistance and detailed replies.

[Liptonbrisk]

I didn't even know there was an OBiWiFi option.

There is: http://www.obihai.com/wifi#wifi-with-phone. But I'm glad you're not using it.

Maybe the OBI isn't the problem

It's not. It never has been.

So I unplugged the router and modem, then plugged in the modem and waited a minute before plugging the router back in. Wifi was fine again after that. I'll leave the ATA unplugged today to see if the wifi stops working again.

Just to clarify, your wi-fi dropping has nothing to do with your ATA. It wasn't clear to me that you were making some sort of causal relationship between your Wi-Fi dropping and having a new ATA.

An ATA can't logically cause a router's Wi-FI signal to drop, unless the ATA is not shielded properly and somehow causing interference (my ATAs have always sat right next to my routers). The likelihood of that scenario happening is practically nil.

Wi-Fi dropping is either a problem with your router or interference from other competing signals in the area or your household.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/227973/s ... _them.html#
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/networks ... s/page/0/1

Absolutely nothing I wrote in this thread before this post has anything to do with Wi-Fi, other than asking you if you're using the OBiWiFi adapter.

If your router isn't producing a Wi-Fi signal at all (when you say wi-fi drops), then the issue is clearly related to the router (either hardware is dying or it's a firmware issue).

The status on the FPL site says "disconnected" and calls are going straight to voicemail.

That's the first scenario (or scenario A in my previous post) and expected behaviour.

I bought the OBI from newegg for $69.99, but the total with tax and shipping was almost $90. That's a sale price (46% off)

Actually, $69.99 is the normal price. It's always $69.99 at Newegg (the regular discount you see is based on a crazy inflated price), unless there's a sale. Previous sale was on February 2nd, 2017 for $59.99: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/newegg-n ... g-2078175/. But there are usually better sales. It's been cheaper in the past at $49.99: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/newegg-o ... x-2067676/.

Unfortunately, when my wifi goes down I can't check the status of either the ATA or the FPL site

Okay

I'm talking about when you're getting dead air on incoming calls. If wi-fi drops that shouldn't mean that FPL becomes unregistered in the ATA. The ATA isn't connecting to the router via wi-fi.
Simply because wi-fi drops doesn't mean incoming calls should simply stop working--unless the router is frozen/dead.

If that ATA becomes unregistered, it sounds like you're having more problems with that router than just the wi-fi signal dropping. What you're describing sounds as though the router is completely freezing/locking up.

1) a) Are you sure wi-fi signal is dropping completely? Is the router not broadcasting at all?
b) Is the router not working at all or locking up as opposed to simply wi-fi dropping?

2) Is the problem, instead, that your modem is losing connectivity or that your internet service is intermittently dropping?

If the problem is 1 a or b, then you've got a router problem. 1b is a little more serious (router hardware could be overheating or dying).
1a could be firmware related (but could also be a hardware issue).

If the problem is 2, either your modem is dying or you've got an ISP issue (possible signal/noise issue to your modem).

Regardless, if FPL, for any reason, becomes unregistered in the ATA, if you wait long enough, incoming calls should go to FPL's voicemail. Scenario B or 2 (in my previous posts)

As soon as FPL's website indicates your ATA is not registered (which can take up to an hour), incoming calls will go directly to FPL's voicemail. Scenario A or 1 (in my previous posts)

[Liptonbrisk]

To clarify, all the stuff I wrote about UDP timeouts and boot order has to do with ensuring Freephoneline is registered in the ATA and you getting proper two-way audio.

That stuff I wrote has nothing to do with wi-fi dropping or fixing wi-fi dropping (except rebooting a router is temporarily fixing the wi-fi problem for you). If the router is locking up, then rebooting
it is a temporary fix until it locks up again (same for wi-fi coming back). And rebooting a modem can temporarily fix internet connectivity issues, but if there's a signal or noise issue rebooting
your modem isn't going to fix the root of the problem (you would need to contact your ISP). And if your router is dying, rebooting it is not a permanent fix either.

[streetcore]

Just to clarify, your wi-fi dropping has nothing to do with your ATA. It wasn't clear to me that you were making some sort of causal relationship between your Wi-Fi dropping and having a new ATA.

Sorry about the confusion, but I was definitely thinking there was a relationship between wifi dropping and the new ATA because that's when the problems started. I really don't understand all this stuff very well, so my apologies for drawing the wrong conclusion. After I unplugged the ATA and continued to have the same problems, I started to think maybe the problems had to do with the router's firmware upgrade.

I'll do some more testing and the next time the wifi drops I will connect a laptop directly to router and then the modem with an ethernet cable to see whether it's just the wifi, or if my internet service is dropping completely.

I know I'm going off on a tangent from my original post, so I really appreciate you sticking with me.

Thanks again.

[Liptonbrisk]

Sorry about the confusion

No problem. No need to apologize.

but I was definitely thinking there was a relationship between wifi dropping and the new ATA because that's when the problems started

One does not affect the other in this case.

I started to think maybe the problems had to do with the router's firmware upgrade.

That is a possibility--if, in fact, the router does not broadcast at all.
Possibly uploading firmware again may help (if there was some issue the first time you updated). Hard lockups to me though usually suggest
a hardware problem (and based on what you wrote before, it doesn't seem as though wi-fi is the only thing that stops working).

Sometimes a router factory reset is recommended after a firmware update. But then you would need to reconfigure your router afterwards.

I'll do some more testing and the next time the wifi drops I will connect a laptop directly to router and then the modem with an ethernet cable to see whether it's just the wifi, or if my internet service is dropping completely.

You can also connect your laptop directly to the router and try to access it. If you can't then it's not just the wi-fi that's dropping. The entire router is locking up.

It's not clear to me either by what you mean when you write, "wifi drops." Do you not see your Wi-Fi Network name (SSID) on your computer when the list of available networks populates? Or, instead, does your internet connection stop working?

Anyway, I think you're on the right track. You need to figure out if it's an issue with your ISP, your modem, or your router.

[streetcore]

It's not clear to me either by what you mean when you write, "wifi drops." Do you not see your Wi-Fi Network name (SSID) on your computer when the list of available networks populates? Or, instead, does your internet connection stop working?

The internet connection stops working, but I can still see the Wi-Fi Network name on my computer, phone, etc.

[Liptonbrisk]

It's not clear to me either by what you mean when you write, "wifi drops." Do you not see your Wi-Fi Network name (SSID) on your computer when the list of available networks populates? Or, instead, does your internet connection stop working?

The internet connection stops working, but I can still see the Wi-Fi Network name on my computer, phone, etc.

That means your internet connection dropped--but your router is still broadcasting. There's a difference between having no internet access and Wi-Fi connectivity not working.
So far what you're describing is a loss of internet access only.

Are you positive your computer isn't still connected via Wi-Fi to your router at that point?
If it is, you should still be able to log in to your router and ATA over Wi-FI--even when your internet connection drops. If you can log in, then your router is working.
You should be able to see under Status-->Device Info-->WAN if your router has properly obtained an IP address from your modem: click http://support.dlink.ca/emulators/dir61 ... _Info.html
If the status is "Disconnected" or something other than "Connected", the problem probably lies with your modem or ISP.

[streetcore]

Are you positive your computer isn't still connected via Wi-Fi to your router at that point?
If it is, you should still be able to log in to your router and ATA when your internet connection drops--even over Wi-Fi. If you can, then your router is working.

I'm pretty sure the first time it happened I tried navigating to the IP address for the ATA and the router, but the pages wouldn't load. If it happens again, I'll be sure to pay closer attention.

I've got the OBI plugged in again and just made a couple calls, Everything sounded pretty good, so hopefully I can get these other issues resolved.

[Liptonbrisk]

I'm pretty sure the first time it happened I tried navigating to the IP address for the ATA and the router, but the pages wouldn't load.

That's a router issue provided you still have Wi-Fi connectivity. The router stopped responding to requests.

If FPL becomes unregistered in the ATA, that has nothing to do with Wi-Fi not working since it's not connected via Wi-Fi.
If incoming calls go to dead air that has nothing to do with Wi-Fi either. What it, more likely, means is that the ATA was unable to access the internet. And the causes are either modem/ISP or
router related.

[streetcore]

My internet connection has continued to drop a couple times a day. I just got off the phone with my ISP and they said there have been no network problems. I did a hard reset on the modem and connected the laptop directly to it with and ethernet cable. Everything seemed okay, so I reconnected the router and the ATA and a few minutes later the internet connection via Wi-Fi dropped again. I called the ISP back and they suggested I disconnect the router and use a laptop connected directly to the modem with an ethernet cable for at least a day to see if the problem reoccurs. It's a pain to have to give up Wi-Fi for awhile, but I guess that's probably the best way to figure out if it's the router or the modem.

[Liptonbrisk]

The way you're going about troubleshooting isn't going resolve anything. Don't do what your ISP says. Do the following:

Stop rebooting and resetting your modem. As soon as you have a problem, connect your laptop directly to the modem via Ethernet cable. If you don't have internet access, the problem is with your modem or your ISP (contact your ISP, and don't bother messing with your router). If you do have internet access, do not reboot your modem, and proceed to connect your laptop directly to your router and try to access it via a web browser using the router's LAN IP. If you can't access the router, your router is the problem. Also try surfing the internet while connected directly to the router via Ethernet cable. If you can surf, then it's an issue with Wi-Fi (either your router, the wi-fi adapter in your computer, or its driver).

[streetcore]

When I lost the internet connection earlier today, and before I called the ISP or rebooted anything, I first connected the laptop to the router with an ethernet cable and I still couldn't connect to the internet. Then I connected the laptop to the modem with the ethernet cable and still couldn't connect to the internet. That's when I call the ISP and they suggested the hard reset.

I'll reconnect everything and follow your sequence of testing if it happens again.

Thanks

[Liptonbrisk]

I first connected the laptop to the router with an ethernet cable and I still couldn't connect to the internet.

When you connect your laptop directly via ethernet cable to your router, you should also be trying to access the router itself (router configuration via web browser), just for troubleshooting purposes. You can then confirm that your router is working at least and not the source of your problem.
And if you still see your router's Network name (SSID) being broadcast, when you experience a loss of internet access, then I doubt that your router is not working the way D-Link wants it to work.

Then I connected the laptop to the modem with the ethernet cable and still couldn't connect to the internet. That's when I call the ISP and they suggested the hard reset.

When you're testing, ensure that your laptop's Ethernet adapter (network adapter) is set to obtain an IP automatically (and not manually configured). It probably is setup in this manner already, but it's good to double check. Also, if you're using DSL, your modem would need to be doing PPoE login (as opposed to your router) when you connect your laptop to the modem. I'm a little confused because in your profile it says you're using DSL, but above you mention you have a Thomson DHG536, which is a cable modem. If you are using cable internet, then forget what I said about PPoE.

Okay, so what wrote above is a lot clearer to me. Thanks. Provided the stuff I bolded is true, the problem is either with your modem or your ISP. Obviously, I can't be tech support for your ISP (and I don't work for FPL or Obihai either), but you can ask your ISP to run a diagnostic test on your modem. You can also ask them to come out and take a look at your modem. If you don't own your modem, you can also ask your ISP to replace it. They should be asking for modem logs as well and instruct you on how to provide them. There should be error messages that allow them to help troubleshoot this issue for you. If you're using cable internet, you can ask your ISP to run signal strength tests to your modem. You can also request a technician to come out and check signal strength to your modem for you. Modems can die over time. I have no idea if yours is starting to, but that's a possibility.

If you can't obtain internet access directly from your modem, the problem isn't your router yet. The reason I say, "yet", is because the stuff I wrote about UDP timeouts (where a corrupted NAT connection between your router and your ATA develops) could affect you later, under different circumstances (then you would refer to the 3 options I mentioned here: http://forum.fongo.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19039#p74702). But the bottom line is that you can't expect anything to work properly when you don't have internet access. Having a solid, reliable internet connection is the first step.

[Liptonbrisk]

I called the ISP back and they suggested I disconnect the router and use a laptop connected directly to the modem with an ethernet cable for at least a day to see if the problem reoccurs. It's a pain to have to give up Wi-Fi for awhile, but I guess that's probably the best way to figure out if it's the router or the modem.

If computers can't access the internet when directly connected to modems, the problem isn't customers' routers.