Spam Catcher Suggestion

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Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby awan » 10/09/2018

Spam is increasing and to stop it i have a suggestion to create a central spam catching number. the users of free phone line and fongo forward the calls to the spam catching number. this way there will be a common spam arrest number , once the number is stored in the spam db, next time it is automatically forwarded to spam well thus reducing spam traffic. I am sure there is no revenue stream from the spam calls received, howvere there is a loss of revenue with the spam traffic.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby bridonca » 10/10/2018

awan wrote:Spam is increasing and to stop it i have a suggestion to create a central spam catching number. the users of free phone line and fongo forward the calls to the spam catching number. this way there will be a common spam arrest number , once the number is stored in the spam db, next time it is automatically forwarded to spam well thus reducing spam traffic. I am sure there is no revenue stream from the spam calls received, howvere there is a loss of revenue with the spam traffic.


Sadly, most spammers spoof a legitimate phone number, so you would be blocking a number from an individual that did not initiate the spam call. There are calls for the whole industry to block bad actor exchanges. The problem with that, is because Fongo is free, spammers try to use this service first. They do not get that far with spam, because once Fongo knows about it, the spammer loses their Fongo account. But if persistent, spammers will get some calls through with any service.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 10/10/2018

awan wrote:Spam is increasing and to stop it i have a suggestion to create a central spam catching number. the users of free phone line and fongo forward the calls to the spam catching number. this way there will be a common spam arrest number , once the number is stored in the spam db, next time it is automatically forwarded to spam well thus reducing spam traffic.


A service that you describe already exists, but not for Freephoneline, unless users have Obihai ATAs, and Fongo users. It's called Nomorobo: https://www.nomorobo.com/, and personally, I wish it were officially supported by Fibernetics.
The Obihai OBi2xx ATA PDF guide shows how to use it for Freephoneline customers: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18805#p73839. Unfortunately, other ATAs and IP Phone phones from other brands aren't able to make use of Nomorobo with Freephoneline because Obihai's devices are, so far, the only ones able to route incoming calls easily to other destinations.

You can block calls in the Fongo Mobile app under Settings-->Phone Service-->Blocked numbers.

Similarly, when I receive an incoming spam call, if it's from a legit number, I store it in my MTelemarketers digitmap, and then future calls from that number get routed elsewhere. The method is described in this PDF guide: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18805#p73839. However, Tropo will no longer exist after October 31, 2018, so anything involving Tropo in that guide should be ignored.

These anti-telemarketing methods don't hurt Fibernetics' bottom line because the calls are simply routed elsewhere after reaching its network. The calls aren't blocked from reaching Fibernetics.

As bridonca suggests, however, Nomorobo isn't terribly effective against spoofed phone numbers that are real numbers outside of your area code. Other VoIP service providers offer options that require unknown incoming callers to state their names or press a random digit on a phone's keypad in order to connect the call. Those methods are effective against robodialers, but those methods are less effective when the scammer is present on the line and willing to speak a name or press a button.

There's a related discussion over here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=19278&p=75563.

Here's what happens when spoofing occurs:

1) Spammer might be using a VoIP service that allows him or her to fake the outgoing number.

2) The fake outgoing number can be blocked. Let's say the fake number is 519-999-9999. You can set Fongo Mobile to block 519-999-9999. All calls from 519-999-9999 will be blocked, even though the outgoing number is spoofed.

Chances are the telemarketer, after a week (or a few days), changes the outgoing number. And then you have to block a new number.

3) Quite often 519-999-9999 is someone else's legitimate phone number, and you're now also blocking that person from calling you. Also the real person who owns 519-999-9999 will probably receive tons of calls complaining about telemarketing calls, despite the fact it's not that person's fault.

Also, quite often scammers try to use fake outbound called IDs that appear similar to your own phone number. Let's say your phone number is 519-123-4567. Scammers may try to call you from a spoofed (fake) outbound number that closely resembles yours, such as 519-12x-xxxx (where x is a digit from 1 to 9). The idea is that if the outbound CID (caller ID) number closely resembles yours, you'll answer the call, thinking, "Hey, this number looks like mine. I wonder who it is?" But it's not a neighbour or a friend. It's really some scammer from an international destination trying to trick you into giving your credit card information, for example.
It's pretty easy to block those calls using an Obihai ATA; just enter 51912xxxxx in a Telemarketing digitmap as outlined in the PDF guide.

On smartphones, there's a one time fee, paid app called WideProtect that's useful for blocking these types of calls (ones that appear similar to your phone number).


I am sure there is no revenue stream from the spam calls received


Actually, there is. Fibernetics, which owns/operates Freephoneline and Fongo, is the largest privately held competitive local exchange carrier (CLEC) in Canada, and FPL/Fongo generates revenue from incoming phone calls or termination fees to its network in addition to the fees paid by its customers. The more phone calls made to their network, the more money they make. However, Fibernetics (FPL/Fongo) aren't the cause for any telemarketing calls you receive.

From viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3096&p=16984#p16966
"Freephoneline.ca will never disclose your information to anyone outside of the company, as not only a courtesy to you our customers but also due to legal, ethical, and business reasons."--FONGO_kris

From viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3096&p=16984#p16984
"As we are part of a CLEC who is governed by the CRTC, we have a very strict privacy policy and do not disclose or sell any information."--FONGO_steve

Freephonline does give your info to a 3rd party 911 service (probably Northern 911) for the purposes of providing 911 service, which is understandable.


Your suggestion doesn't prevent the incoming telemarketing call from reaching Fibernetic's network. Rather, the call is just routed elsewhere after it reaches Fibernetics' network. Consequently, implementing your suggestion wouldn't lead to lost revenue.
Please do not send me emails; I do not work for nor represent Freephoneline or Fongo. Post questions on the forums so that others may learn from responses or assist you. Thank you. If you have an issue with your account or have a billing issue, submit a ticket here: https://support.fongo.com/hc/en-us/requests/new. Visit http://status.fongo.com/ to check FPL/Fongo service status. Freephoneline setup guides can be found at viewforum.php?f=15.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby markon » 12/15/2018

Interesting suggestion. Apparently Fongo doesn't have a system in place to protect customer phones from scam calls. Is that correct? (I am not a Fongo user yet, but I may consider using Fongo...) Maybe they could integrate the Reverd automatic scam stopper https://reverd.com/ so the users will not have to enter each and every scam number one by one... instead scam will be stopped using the reverd community supported database with about 2 Million reported numbers https://reverd.com/api/...
I think it will be beneficial for everybody to have / use a spam free communication service.

I am curious to hear what Fongo users think about it? :roll:
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/15/2018

That app is no different from tons of others out there, such as Truecaller, Hiya, drupe,etc.--insofar as they are all incapable of stopping scammers from calling you from your friends' outbound CID if they feel like it, for example, or spoofing your outbound phone number and outbound CID name to scam or call other people, including your friends. I'm uncertain that I would want Fongo Mobile to integrate with some in-app purchase product that collects users' contacts/information "voluntarily", regardless of privacy policies (and anonymous personal identifiers) or how much better reverd's may be than truecaller's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/commen ... _you_from/

While I am primarily a Freephoneline user, I also use Fongo Mobile.
Please do not send me emails; I do not work for nor represent Freephoneline or Fongo. Post questions on the forums so that others may learn from responses or assist you. Thank you. If you have an issue with your account or have a billing issue, submit a ticket here: https://support.fongo.com/hc/en-us/requests/new. Visit http://status.fongo.com/ to check FPL/Fongo service status. Freephoneline setup guides can be found at viewforum.php?f=15.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby lustucru » 12/15/2018

I have been receiving too many scam calls on my Fongo Home number during the last 3 years. The only way I found to stop such calls is a virtual PBX.

My contacts enter a 4 digits extension number that works like a PIN. This can be configured to reject unknow numbers or forward them to an alternate email address not associated with my Fongo account and that I check occasionaly. I also setup a second temporary extension number I use when I'm waiting for a delivery and I deactivate this extension as soon as the item is delivered to reject the robot annoying customer satisfaction survey call that follows some deliveries.

This is a paid service from FlyNumber and costs US$ 2.95 per month.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby markon » 12/16/2018

Liptonbrisk wrote:That app is no different from tons of others out there, such as Truecaller, Hiya, drupe,etc.--insofar as they are all incapable of stopping scammers from calling you from your friends' outbound CID if they feel like it, for example, or spoofing your outbound phone number and outbound CID name to scam or call other people, including your friends. I'm uncertain that I would want Fongo Mobile to integrate with some in-app purchase product that collects users' contacts/information "voluntarily", regardless of privacy policies (and anonymous personal identifiers) or how much better reverd's may be than truecaller's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/commen ... _you_from/

While I am primarily a Freephoneline user, I also use Fongo Mobile.


Just to clarify: reverd app is totally different than any other "similar" app. Yes other apps do not do the job. Yes people do not understand how the reverd app is different and why it is better. Simply put reverd app does the job. Also it does not collect private information. It protects the user every possible way.

And yes no one can protect any phone from spoofed numbers yet, that is correct too. I believe some companies are working on that but there is no solution yet. That being said the reverd system has at least the following distinguishing advantages:
1. they have achieved 0 (zero) seconds response time. (while with other apps the phone usually rings once or twice...)
2. they do not show red and green buttons = user does not need to make a decision to accept the call or not. If it is a reported blacklisted number it is a scam and it is blocked. Period.
3. they provide total silence. You do not know if scammers are trying to call you and scammers will not know if your number exists since you do not answer.
4. minimal user input - user assigns silent ring tone to reverd contact only once. That's it.
5. everybody protects everyone by reporting harassing calls.
6. there is more...

Anyway it was working for me perfectly for a year so I hope it will continue protecting my phone if I start using the Fongo service...
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/16/2018

markon wrote:
And yes no one can protect any phone from spoofed numbers yet, that is correct too.


That's why these apps aren't foolproof, and as I mention below, would completely fail at least 40% of the time for me on one of my test numbers.

I believe some companies are working on that


No, they (third party blacklist apps) aren't. Spoofing needs to be denied at the service provider level, and unless (foreign) governments mandate that spoofing is illegal there's no incentive for certain service providers, whose primary source of business is from telemarketing spammers, to make spoofing impossible for their customers. Thankfully the CRTC is starting to address this issue in Canada: https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2018/2018-32.htm, but until something is done to address spoofing globally, I don't expect spoofing to stop.


they do not show red and green buttons = user does not need to make a decision to accept the call or not. If it is a reported blacklisted number it is a scam and it is blocked. Period.


You don't have to do that with Nomorobo either--or with most blacklists.

5. everybody protects everyone by reporting harassing calls.


Nomorobo offers that as well. So do other services.

The reason Nomorobo is appealing to me for Freephoneline is that it's completely free for VoIP home phone users.
Unfortunately, it's not free for smartphones, and the app isn't available in Canada.


Anyway it was working for me perfectly for a year


At least 40% of marketing spam/scams I receive on one of my phone numbers (not from Fibernetics) that I only use for testing purpose comes from spoofed numbers (that belong to actual people--and they aren't in my area code either), none of which can be blocked by any third party service, including reverd. I also like how these in-app paid subscription services get people to pay for the privilege of "voluntarily" uploading their contact information to a database along with all kinds of assurances that their information won't be sold to third parties. That's pretty cute.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/16/2018

lustucru wrote:I have been receiving too many scam calls on my Fongo Home number during the last 3 years. The only way I found to stop such calls is a virtual PBX.

My contacts enter a 4 digits extension number that works like a PIN. This can be configured to reject unknow numbers or forward them to an alternate email address not associated with my Fongo account and that I check occasionaly.


You may already be aware, but with Obihai ATAs and Obihai IP phones, you can create whitelists which ring your phones automatically. You can route all other calls elsewhere. You just create these rules in X_Inboundcallroute.
I find the whitelist method, in general, to be fairly restrictive, but increasingly, more people are choosing to implement whitelists (I'm talking generally--not specifically about Fibernetics' customers). The whitelist method is mentioned in the PDF guide on page 36: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18805#p73839. So, that's one option for Freephoneline users, but it won't help you with Fongo Home Phone. Of course, whitelists are pretty useless when the scammer is spoofing your mom's phone number.

You can also send all non-whitelisted numbers to Obihai's Auto Attendant, where they will be forced to press "1" to ring your phones: http://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php? ... 4#msg58484.

Other VoIP service providers can make incoming callers press a random digit to connect the call, but again, that doesn't help if the scammer is present on the line when those directions are given.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby markon » 12/16/2018

Nomorobo does the same thing, provided Nomorobo officially supports the service provider.


Hmmm I'll think twice before using Nomorobo after seeing feedback as below:
-------------------------------
Doesn’t block 90%
Simple as that. Blocked roughly1 out of every 10 calls. Contacted company for a refund, they told me to contact Apple. Apple told me there was nothing they could do. $20 wasted. Avoid.
feedback by xTamTamx 12/13/2018
-------------------------------
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/16/2018

markon wrote:Blocked roughly1 out of every 10 calls


I could make the exact same claim about any one of these services. If I had a dime for every person who doesn't realize spoofing real numbers exists and that none of these blacklist services can address that problem, I'd be very rich.

I also see clueless individuals.online making complaints about Freephoneline, and they, similarly, have no idea what they're doing and are, instead, quick to blame the service for their own shortcomings.

I do use Nomorobo for free with FPL. I don't have problems, but I would never pay for Nomorobo, reverd, Hiya, etc.

Contacted company for a refund, they told me to contact Apple.


Devs usually don't issue refunds for apps sold on the iOS app store. The point of sale is through Apple's app store, and, consequently, refunds are issued through them. Contacting a dev company for refunds is almost always pointless, and Apple has its own policies: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204084.

I should qualify that that the no ring option, AFAIK, isn't available with Nomorobo for VoIP landlines, with the exception of certain VoIP services that are integrated with Nomorobo. However, there are workarounds with some services that allow you to eliminate the ring anyway (involving delays with hunt groups). That situation might be different for Nomorobo on smartphones; it's possible no ring is heard (I'll never pay to test Nomorobo).
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby markon » 12/16/2018

My understanding is that Nomorobo covers / deals with North American numbers only and may not help against spam calls in Switzerland, France or Russia... Am I missing something? Also it might need Internet connection to do the job in the US...
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/16/2018

markon wrote:My understanding is that Nomorobo covers / deals with North American numbers only and may not help against spam calls in Switzerland, France or Russia... Am I missing something?


Nomorobo blocks international spam callers:
https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a ... rotection-


Bring your own device SIP numbers can be used worldwide provided there’s internet service.
You're missing that provided I can reach one of Nomorobo's simultaneous ring numbers (preferably for free, which I can), I can use Nomorobo in conjunction with any BYOD (bring your own device) SIP phone number I want (not just with Freephoneline), worldwide, using an Obihai ATA or Obihai IP Phone.

You may also be missing that I'm in Canada and that provided I have an Obihai ATA or Obihai IP Phone, I can use Nomorobo for free with Freephoneline. Nomorobo blocks spam callers worldwide--but again, like everything else, a large blacklist database may be pointless if real numbers are being spoofed.

Also, https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a ... -Robocall-


Also it might need Internet connection


Freephoneline, Fongo Home Phone, and Fongo Mobile are VoIP services.





https://nomorobo.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a ... -Call-Data

"We respect your privacy.
Nomorobo was built from the ground up to be consumer friendly. No tricks. No shenanigans.

We don't require access to your contact list (like some other robocall blocking apps) and we never see your incoming or outgoing call logs. If you do give us contact info, we never transmit it to our servers. It's only processed locally on your phone.



Your friends and family are your business - not ours"
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby markon » 12/16/2018

Nomorobo blocks international spam callers

Good to know. Thanks.

You may also be missing that I'm in Canada

Where in Canada? I'm in Canada too... V6B 3X6

Freephoneline, Fongo Home Phone, and Fongo Mobile are VoIP services.

I see.

We respect your privacy.
Nomorobo was built from the ground up to be consumer friendly. No tricks. No shenanigans.
We don't require access to your contact list (like some other robocall blocking apps) and we never see your incoming or outgoing call logs. If you do give us contact info, we never transmit it to our servers. It's only processed locally on your phone.

Sounds good. Same with Reverd.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/16/2018

markon wrote:Where in Canada?


My only point is that FPL, Fongo Home Phone, and Fongo Mobile only issue Canadian phone numbers.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby Liptonbrisk » 12/16/2018

By the way, I can completely eliminate the first ring before Nomorobo picks up the call by changing my ring pattern in an Obihai ATA or Obihai IP Phone.
For Freephoneline users, in your Obihai ATA navigate to Ring Settings-->Ring Profile A-->Ring Pattern 1 (make sure this corresponds with Voice Services-->SPfpl Service-->X_RingProfile and X_DefaultRing).
The default for Ring Pattern 1 is 60;(2+4). Change that to 60;2(0+2);58(2+4)

That means the ring pattern is 60 seconds. During the first two seconds your phone ports will not ring. Then the normal ring pattern, for 58 seconds, of two seconds of ringing followed by 4 seconds of silence is established.
During the first two seconds of no ringing, CID is populated and checked against Nomorobo's database. If a match is found Nomorobo picks up the call. You hear nothing. If no match is found at the 3 second mark, your phone ports will ring. Without changing the ring pattern, the first ring will be heard before Nomorobo picks up the spam call for Freephoneline users that have Obihai ATAs.

Anyway, I'm content not paying anything to use Nomorobo with Freephoneline.
Please do not send me emails; I do not work for nor represent Freephoneline or Fongo. Post questions on the forums so that others may learn from responses or assist you. Thank you. If you have an issue with your account or have a billing issue, submit a ticket here: https://support.fongo.com/hc/en-us/requests/new. Visit http://status.fongo.com/ to check FPL/Fongo service status. Freephoneline setup guides can be found at viewforum.php?f=15.
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Re: Spam Catcher Suggestion

Postby markon » 12/16/2018

My only point is that FPL, Fongo Home Phone, and Fongo Mobile only issue Canadian phone numbers.

I see. Thanks.
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