Lost incoming calls should almost never happen

[godot2012]

Assuming voice mail and/or call forward feature(s) was set by the user, an incoming call should never get lost, the calling party should never get a busy signal. If the system can not complete the call, for any reason, the call should be directed to voice mail or to the call forward number specified. The only exception would be a total service/Internet crash. Proper handling of this redirection would go a long way to make Internet telephony acceptable to non-geeks.

I have tried several possible scenarios, no power, unplugged ATA, unplugged phone, etc. As a general rule incoming calls are lost, and after a very long silence the caller gets a busy signal. I think I will be Bell customer until this issue is resolved.

Are there any plans to fix this problem? Please advise.

Thanks

[dibsmft]

Well, I would hope that FPL works in the way that you describe. I am unable to use FPL for incoming calls as they do not offer numbers in my area but the SIP provider incoming DID that I use does do everything that you mention (as well as voicemail to email) and as far as I can tell I don't miss any calls.
You should call FPL customer service to make a complaint if your service is losing your calls.

[Jake]

It would be nice if there were some kind of fall back system in place in case my end can't be reached for whatever reason.
The phone isn't a big deal for me, but to some I could see this being a real problem - +1 for the OP

[TheHardy]

Day off from work, did some experimenting, mainly making a lot of calls and leaving my PC softphone open (something I almost never do).

Under Win7 with FPL, after about 10 short duration calls in and out, the application just froze up. Nothing else running on the PC after a clean reboot.

What happened, however, is that my FPL# now rang busy --- the fast reorder tone.

This persisted for OVER 2 hours, until I killed the process, restarted FPL and logged back into my account ...

What troubles me here is that there was no 3600 second time out or anything on the registration -- 2+ hours of busy signal (tbh, I called it about every 5 mins to verify).

This is NOT acceptable behavior for VOIP, even FREE service.

This needs to be investigated (on the network side, for things to time out or fallback to voicemail or something).

I won't bother ranting about the POS PC client, as it has not been updated in over a year ... I guess it takes 2 years to get a programming update.... ???

[godot2012]

I wonder where Is Fongo Mike? Does anyone from Fongo reads these comments?

[TheHardy]

Mike is around and moderating other threads. I am sure he is not commenting on this as there is nothing constructive to add. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

[FONGO_steve]

I wonder where Is Fongo Mike? Does anyone from Fongo reads these comments?

Every thread gets Fongo eyes whether we comment or not. In cases like this, I don't think any of our frontline staff on the forums are in a position to comment on system architecture as we don't know the systems as well as the engineers and programmers who work on them all day.

Something that could inevitably happen with any SIP provider is if the user agent drops a connection without properly terminating the registration with the SIP server then the SIP server will still think the user agent is connected and when it tries to route calls to it they will timeout and cause behavior such as busy signals or dead air. Once the SIP server sees that the user agent is no longer there then it'll deregister it and send calls to the next stage. I won't admit to be an engineer or programmer myself so I can't comment on this in any more depth.

I'm away from the office for a few weeks, but when I'm back I'll make sure this comment makes it to the right eyes if Mike hasn't passed it there already.

As we always say, this is primarily a community driven forum. If there's any large problems or concerns where Fongo response is absolutely required, then you're best to follow direct support channels like an email or phone call to our support team.

[TheHardy]

Every thread gets Fongo eyes whether we comment or not. In cases like this, I don't think any of our frontline staff on the forums are in a position to comment on system architecture as we don't know the systems as well as the engineers and programmers who work on them all day.

To that end, is there any move to get some additional forum involvement from NON-frontline staff?? IE some of the programmers or engineers to participate, even on an infrequent basis (such as a major issue/outtage etc) to help "fill in the blanks"??? I think this could be beneficial in the long term.

Once the SIP server sees that the user agent is no longer there then it'll deregister it and send calls to the next stage. I won't admit to be an engineer or programmer myself so I can't comment on this in any more depth.

This seems to be along the lines of what I have figured out too, but as my simple testing with the PC softphone has revealed, it can sometimes be over 2hrs for the server-side to realize the client has died/crashed/terminated and cease the busy signal.

Moreover, even if the client is occupied in placing or receiving a call, I think the main premise here is that the voicemail platform should ALWAYS by the last line of answering --- in some cases (like at the instant of an outgoing call being set up...) perhaps even failing DIRECTLY _to_ voicemail without RINGING status whatsoever.

[FONGO_mike]

I wonder where Is Fongo Mike? Does anyone from Fongo reads these comments?

Every thread gets Fongo eyes whether we comment or not. In cases like this, I don't think any of our frontline staff on the forums are in a position to comment on system architecture as we don't know the systems as well as the engineers and programmers who work on them all day.

Something that could inevitably happen with any SIP provider is if the user agent drops a connection without properly terminating the registration with the SIP server then the SIP server will still think the user agent is connected and when it tries to route calls to it they will timeout and cause behavior such as busy signals or dead air. Once the SIP server sees that the user agent is no longer there then it'll deregister it and send calls to the next stage. I won't admit to be an engineer or programmer myself so I can't comment on this in any more depth.

I'm away from the office for a few weeks, but when I'm back I'll make sure this comment makes it to the right eyes if Mike hasn't passed it there already.

As we always say, this is primarily a community driven forum. If there's any large problems or concerns where Fongo response is absolutely required, then you're best to follow direct support channels like an email or phone call to our support team.

I can confirm this has already been brought to the attention of the right people within the company.

[TheHardy]

Thanks for the confirmation of that Mike; was there any word whether the "fail-over to voicemail" default was considered? Or why the "session" (whether aborted or terminated) has not been timing out and releasing the line (causing a BUSY) correctly?

[FONGO_mike]

Thanks for the confirmation of that Mike; was there any word whether the "fail-over to voicemail" default was considered? Or why the "session" (whether aborted or terminated) has not been timing out and releasing the line (causing a BUSY) correctly?

I do not have any updates on that at this time.

Mike is around and moderating other threads. I am sure he is not commenting on this as there is nothing constructive to add. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

I am always trying to put as much time as i can in the forums. Please remember that this is an unofficial medium of support and on top of our daily duty's to the company. Although i may not post on everything, i do try and address what i can when i am on the forums. With the number of postings we see, we do not always have time to address them all and regularly prowl and growl in our office even though we may not be saying anything via these forums.

[TheHardy]

Mike: I know you are as active as you can be (as is Steve) ... and also that this is an "unofficial" support channel --- I would think that with how popular the forums have become, that it may be time for the "higher ups" to think about actually dedicating some manpower-hours to the forum --- ie: instead of you and the others having to "shoehorn" in the time during your work hours, that there is time set aside in your work schedule to actually deal with things, and thereby further increase the quality of the representation of the brand in the forums --- after all, image is everything, and seeing this forum portrayed as a "side venture" is kind of a blow of sorts to the brand image -- after all, I would think that far more people visit/post the forums for problems than actually call in!! I for one have only called in 3 times total, as most of the answers are available here QUICKER and with peer support also.

Plus, there is no point for me to call in to complain about the crappy software, as anyone that I get to speak to would just tell me it is not a network issue or to simply reboot my machine ... At least here on the forums, those of you from Fongo _KNOW_ that there are software issues, even if nothing is _SHOWN_ to be done about them....

[Jake]

I would think that with how popular the forums have become, that it may be time for the "higher ups" to think about actually dedicating some manpower-hours to the forum ---

I would like to add to this that when I called in the other day I was actually TOLD to come to go to the website to get help by a recorded message. Now maybe they just meant to go look through the FAQs, but there is also links to this forum where it would be a reasonable assumption to ask for official help, especially as I was looking for help to my problem which probably isn't covered by the FAQs.

Now my point here is - someone calls into support looking for help. A recorded message points them towards the website and thus onto the forum. People ARE going to end up here, rightly or wrongly, looking for official support because of the same message I was told.

Times have changed a lot at FPL/FONGO, so maybe the forum support needs looking at also.

[TheHardy]

I would think that with how popular the forums have become, that it may be time for the "higher ups" to think about actually dedicating some manpower-hours to the forum ---

I would like to add to this that when I called in the other day I was actually TOLD to come to go to the website to get help by a recorded message. Now maybe they just meant to go look through the FAQs, but there is also links to this forum where it would be a reasonable assumption to ask for official help, especially as I was looking for help to my problem which probably isn't covered by the FAQs.

Now my point here is - someone calls into support looking for help. A recorded message points them towards the website and thus onto the forum. People ARE going to end up here, rightly or wrongly, looking for official support because of the same message I was told.

Times have changed a lot at FPL/FONGO, so maybe the forum support needs looking at also.

An **EXCELENT** point Jake, and drives home what I was trying to say much better than I could.

I've scanned thru the FAQ's and while they are improving, the forums still have far better and more detailed info.

The evolution of this forum, growth of their service (and visibility of their offerings -- a la DV) has pushed Fongo faster than I think they were prepared for, IMHO. That is one of the many reasons that I have proposed (before also) that this forum needs the added legitimacy and full-fledged support to attain "official" status -- heavens, especially if the OFFICIAL support channel (call in) is referring clients back HERE.

Otherwise the perception, rightly or wrongly, is that support is a JOKE or an ILLUSION. I am certain this is NOT what Fongo wants to portray...

[godot2012]

Gentleman, bravo!

I have managed to shake up things a bit. I am pleased with the discussion. I have spent my life in telecom, happened to major in wireline communication, which of course involves telephony. Now, based on my experience with Fongo, this service is a nice thing to experiment with but it is NOT a phone replacement. No, you can not blame the frequent loss of incoming calls on anything but BUGs. The same goes for the shaky dialtone. I am using Skype for years with overall excellent results.

I am quite pleased with my DSL service provider. Over several years now, I can only recall a few glitches. Not as reliable as POTS but overall more than "just acceptable".

The only saving grace for Fongo is that it is 'free'. Well, not really. Buy the time I got Fongo running I was out of $100, give or take. Based on the shaky service I would say that the e911 is grossly unreliable. So there goes the monthly $4.95 payment - for what?

The bottom line is that as far as I may concerned Fongo is an experiment. Can I get my money back?

Last but not least. I have the highest level of admiration for Fongo Mike, Fongo Steve and the other Fongo guys. They are caring fellows who are unable to thread the water fast enough because the organisation they work for is seemingly unable to support them. By now there should be a product specification written, and a development plan with a delivery date to fix the loss of incoming call problem.

[godot2012]

This is an update for those who are interested. Bulldogs get their bone - well almost! At least get attention.

The problem of lost incoming calls was demonstrated recently to the good folks at FONGO. At their suggestion and participation we ran some tests to prove that the problem of lost incoming calls is real. Here are the test results:

Mar 5, Power was disconnected to my HT701 ATA
I immediately called my FONGO number (in Kitchener)
1. from my Bell phone = incoming call did not go to my voice mail - after about 20 sec delay I got a "busy" signal
2. from my cell phone (Rogers) = call did not go to my voice mail - after about 20 sec delay I got a "busy" signal
3. from my Bell phone to my Freephone number in Toronto, which is set to ALWAYS forward to my FONGO number in Kitchener = the result was the same, no voice mail - after about 20 sec delay got busy (Note that I paid for this long distance call - lol)
4. from my PC using my Toronto Freephone number as the caller to my FONGO number (Kitchener) = after some delay the call did go into my voicemail.

At the suggestion of FONGO staff the process was repeated after the ATA was powered off for 30+ minutes. All test results were the same. As you note, all incoming calls failed to be transferred to voice mail with the notable exception of call made from my PC using my Freephoneline.

I was advised that the problem was escalated from Tech Support to engineering. This is progress! And again I would like to thank all who listened to my nagging and were willing to work with me. Good job!

[martsipon]

This is my second post on the subject. My phone worked OK for few months and then on Feb-28 my phone stopped receiving incoming calls.

My cable modem, router and VOIP phone-adapter are on UPS, so no powerbreak could damage them I have rebooted them all multiple times and it did not help. I have also re-set all SIP setting to my VOIP adapter and it did not help too. FPL website SIP SETTINGS shows that I am connected. Besides, if I can make outcoming calls it means my VIOP adapter works. If I make 10 calls from my cell to my PFL phone - my FPL phone will ring probably once, but if I pick it I hear only silence. Since Feb-28 I started to receive multiple calls/rings to my FPL phone, but when I pick the phone I hear silence.

What happened today could be a subject for good stand-up comedy show. Namely, my FPL phone rang, I picked it - and (unbelievable) I heard a human voice!!! The guy on the line told me that many people called him and asked for Mark (which is my name) and they told him what number they dialed (it was my number), eventually he dialed my number too and vuala he found me! This guy and his girlfriend ended up to be also a customers/victims of FreePhoneLine.ca, namely their phone also stopped receiving incoming calls and also form Feb-28. They gave me their PFL phone number and also their cell number. I have dialed their PFL number and ended up talking with absolutely different family. So, I had to call on their cell to confirm that I cannot reach them on their FPL phone. Guys from FreePhoneLine.ca you do amazing call routing job.

I tried to contact FreePhoneLine.ca customer servers via email but was completely ignored, I mean nobody has replied. I have posted request for help on this forum - and again was referred to very long chain of other FPL complaining customers struggling to find solution on their own. So, no phone to call and talk to customer service, no reply to my email to customer service, and no response to my previous request on this forum. Guys from FreePhoneLine.ca thank you for your exceptional service.

I am kinda fed by this "free" service (I paid $50 for account, $25 for number transfer, $100 for new router supporting VOIP, $40 for VOIP phone adapter and I pay roughly $15 a month for their long distance service). If FreePhoneLine.ca won't look and fix my issue until March break I will move to other VOIP provider.

[dibsmft]

This is my second post on the subject. My phone worked OK for few months and then on Feb-28 my phone stopped receiving incoming calls.

My cable modem, router and VOIP phone-adapter are on UPS, so no powerbreak could damage them I have rebooted them all multiple times and it did not help. I have also re-set all SIP setting to my VOIP adapter and it did not help too. FPL website SIP SETTINGS shows that I am connected. Besides, if I can make outcoming calls it means my VIOP adapter works. If I make 10 calls from my cell to my PFL phone - my FPL phone will ring probably once, but if I pick it I hear only silence. Since Feb-28 I started to receive multiple calls/rings to my FPL phone, but when I pick the phone I hear silence.

What happened today could be a subject for good stand-up comedy show. Namely, my FPL phone rang, I picked it - and (unbelievable) I heard a human voice!!! The guy on the line told me that many people called him and asked for Mark (which is my name) and they told him what number they dialed (it was my number), eventually he dialed my number too and vuala he found me! This guy and his girlfriend ended up to be also a customers/victims of FreePhoneLine.ca, namely their phone also stopped receiving incoming calls and also form Feb-28. They gave me their PFL phone number and also their cell number. I have dialed their PFL number and ended up talking with absolutely different family. So, I had to call on their cell to confirm that I cannot reach them on their FPL phone. Guys from FreePhoneLine.ca you do amazing call routing job.

I tried to contact FreePhoneLine.ca customer servers via email but was completely ignored, I mean nobody has replied. I have posted request for help on this forum - and again was referred to very long chain of other FPL complaining customers struggling to find solution on their own. So, no phone to call and to talk to representative (customer service), no reply to my email from email based customer service, and no response to my previous request on this forum. Guys from FreePhoneLine.ca thank you for amazing service.

I am kinda fed by this "free" service (I paid $50 for account, $25 for number transfer and I pay roughly $15 a month for their long distance service).
If FreePhoneLine.ca won't look and fix my issue until March break I will move to other VOIP provider.

.
This looks like quite a serious problem that you cannot solve yourself alone. You might have done better to start a new thread rather than adding on at the end of this one.

[godot2012]

This is my second post on the subject. My phone worked OK for few months and then on Feb-28 my phone stopped receiving incoming calls.

My cable modem, router and VOIP phone-adapter are on UPS, so no powerbreak could damage them I have rebooted them all multiple times and it did not help. I have also re-set all SIP setting to my VOIP adapter and it did not help too. FPL website SIP SETTINGS shows that I am connected. Besides, if I can make outcoming calls it means my VIOP adapter works. If I make 10 calls from my cell to my PFL phone - my FPL phone will ring probably once, but if I pick it I hear only silence. Since Feb-28 I started to receive multiple calls/rings to my FPL phone, but when I pick the phone I hear silence.

What happened today could be a subject for good stand-up comedy show. Namely, my FPL phone rang, I picked it - and (unbelievable) I heard a human voice!!! The guy on the line told me that many people called him and asked for Mark (which is my name) and they told him what number they dialed (it was my number), eventually he dialed my number too and vuala he found me! This guy and his girlfriend ended up to be also a customers/victims of FreePhoneLine.ca, namely their phone also stopped receiving incoming calls and also form Feb-28. They gave me their PFL phone number and also their cell number. I have dialed their PFL number and ended up talking with absolutely different family. So, I had to call on their cell to confirm that I cannot reach them on their FPL phone. Guys from FreePhoneLine.ca you do amazing call routing job.

I tried to contact FreePhoneLine.ca customer servers via email but was completely ignored, I mean nobody has replied. I have posted request for help on this forum - and again was referred to very long chain of other FPL complaining customers struggling to find solution on their own. So, no phone to call and talk to customer service, no reply to my email to customer service, and no response to my previous request on this forum. Guys from FreePhoneLine.ca thank you for your exceptional service.

I am kinda fed by this "free" service (I paid $50 for account, $25 for number transfer, $100 for new router supporting VOIP, $40 for VOIP phone adapter and I pay roughly $15 a month for their long distance service). If FreePhoneLine.ca won't look and fix my issue until March break I will move to other VOIP provider.

Our friend Go-to Guy is right. My thread deals specifically with lost incoming call on FONGO Home Phone. Your problem seems related to service on FPL. I suggest you start a new topic and clearly specify FPL at the top.

Having said that, it just might be possible that the two services are intertwined.

[godot2012]

Thanks to the folks at Support, I am happy to report that this problem is now solved. Incoming calls from traditional landline carriers (Bell; Telus) and from mobile phones while your ATA is "unavailable" - like unplugged! - will now be directed to your voice mail. The solution while works, has a small quirk. The caller will not get a ring indicator signal and the welcome message from voice mail will not be heard before an 11-12 sec 'dead line' delay. So there should be a bit of fine tuning needed to make the behaviour of the system familiar to the average user.

You are hereby invited to test this scenario and report problems if any to Support.

Thanks again to get us over this hurdle.

[godot2012]

Now the bad news. While the problem was fixed for a time, software fix apparently created other problems and IT WAS TAKEN OUT. Ergo incoming calls will still be lost while your ATA has no AC power.

Worse, nobody seems to care. Note that it is not the Support Guys who are the problem> It is product management/engineering. These folks are aware of the issue but do not see it as "high priority". Which is a shame. I guess the computer guys, who are playing with telephony do not understand that loosing incoming calls in the 21st century is not acceptable.

Even more problem. I switched my Bell phone to Worldline. Guess what? I have the same problem with my "home phone"' service. I have reported it. Let see what happens.

Not pleased.