Sound Cuts Out for Half a Second Randomly

[beverly]

I believe rogers put me as a second priority service (like 3web), even though I pay a premium service. Just because I download so much and I end up going way over my bandwidth limit. Probably my account is a red flag.

or

The new docsis 3.0 is having an effect on the cable system.

or

My FPL account date (when I signed up) has something to do with it.

I'll test with my neighbour who has rogers but barely use's his internet

[brentw]

I just had a Grandstream 502 delivered that I purchased yesterday in hopes that it would fix the problem and confirm that it was a PAP2T issue.
It’s not, same problem, if not worse.

I'm leaning towards it has something to do with my FPL account.
Steve could you load my account info onto one of your devices and try it? Preferably on your home internet connection or something to get a true test.
I know you have a secondary connection but am not sure if it’s a separate ISP or if just a secondary connection from the same ISP...if you had access to say a Rogers home internet connection that would be ideal.

Reminder I took my PAP2T with me to Niagara Falls and tested it on a Cogeco connection, same problem.
Took it with me to Toronto (Don Mills and York Mills) and tried a Bell DSL line, same problem.
So I am quite confident in saying it is not a problem with my Rogers connection here in Markham even though that was what I initially expected and would make the most sense....
So tested in Markham, Niagara and Toronto, the same result.

I then setup the new Grandstream 502 that was just delivered and tried it and it's just as bad as the PAP2.
I don't know what else I can do on my end to demonstrate that there is a problem.

Another reminder, my FPL was working pretty much flawlessly before the new server.
I would find it hard to believe that it's a coincidence that these issues started happening around the new server time and before that on the old server it was pretty much perfect.

I dial into voicemail and a couple of times per minute the sound of the girl talking will cut out for a split second.
Frequency does vary, it can be perfect for say 4 minutes and the next minute there’s 3 or 4 hiccups, in the past I've had it really bad say 15 hiccups in less than a minute.

I’ve tried two different PAP2T’s myself, as well as have 3 others in use by friends, all with the same issue.
The second PAP2 I reset to factory defaults, only did the 4 entries to be able to connect to my account to rule out any settings that I did being a problem.
Tried G711u and G729a codecs, same problem on both.
I always mute the phone I am testing with to make sure it’s not causing the sound to cut out when I make noise on my end...

Even when I do a pingtest.net during the test call to voicemail that I’m going I get decent numbers, ping around 18 and jitter normally 2, no packet loss. Those numbers with an active phone call.
Even duing the pingtest the phone can be perfect, then a second or two after the test has completed it'll do some blips.
Testing with the PAP driectly connected to the modem gets the same result.


If the same problems didn't happen when I tested the Cogeco and Bell DSL line then I would say that yes it would be a Rogers problem, but since the same thing happened, totally different router, totally different ISP, to me that just leaves:
1) PAP2T device (and the Grandstream 502 I just got)
2) Setting on FPL server for my account

(fyi a tracert from Cogeco was 4 hops, directly to Toronto which went directly to FPL, couldn’t ask for a better path...)
Tested with Cogeco with the PAP2 plugged directly into the modem too.

I'm not sure what else there could be.

This is getting beyond frustrating.
Steve please use my account info and test thoroughly.

Thanks

Brent

Edit:
Steve I sent you a PM with my account info.

[techevo]

I no longer use me PAP2T. I'm now using a Polycom soundpoint 550 ( ip phone ). I does the exact same thing as my PAP2T. Sound cut for half a second and sometimes a whole second every now and them. It's pretty annoying. It wasn't doing that for me prior to the update. I'm using Videotron as ISP.

I do run a Fortigate firewall and everything is tune toward quality of voip ( QOS, traffic shaping, protocol priority, even at layer 2 level switch is configured with TOS allowing sip and RTP to be prioritised over everything else ).

I do have other SIP trunk with other vendor and they run perfect ( just finishing a 90 minutes call and trace log show 0 packet drop total - perfect conversation as good as PSTN line ). Tried right after a call over FPL and sound cut few time a minutes.

Tried everything ulaw ( with both provider )

here is what I got after about 2 minute of FPL:

* Our Receiver:
SSRC: 471028929
Received packets: 10069
Lost packets: 14
Jitter: 0.0037
Transit: 0.0020
RR-count: 0

Did not get a single packet lost to the other provider after 90 minutes.

[laurent]

Brentw, I just tried your account on my ATA (being Tomato router with QoS enabled and configured).

I called my office and played with the voice prompts (Sorry, we're closed!) for 5 minutes. Zero glitch. Impeccable sound. Clear, no delays, no problem. This tested inbound sound.

I also called my cellphone, and then talked and sang for 5 minutes while listening only to the cellphone side. Clear, no delays, no problem whatsoever, impeccable sound as well.

I used G711u both ways, and this was with my Grandstream HT502 ATA.

Also did a few runs with my SIP client on my phone over wifi, but without QoS (I didn't adjust the router for the test), it glitches just as much with your account than it does with mine That'S normal since packets aren't prioritized properly.

Sorry but it doesn't seem that your account has a problem per say.

[brentw]

Thanks!
k, I guess that's a good thing in a way to knock the account being the problem off the list.

I'm planning to do some more testing using a different internet connection again tomorrow...
Will post an update then.

[brentw]

Update
I have now tested it on a fourth connection.
A 10 meg fibre line, so 10 meg up and down.
The pingtest.net to Toronto is around 12ms and the jitter goes between 0 and 1ms, no packet loss.
This fibre runs a voip system with about 20 phone lines, without issue, when I tested 0 phone lines were in use.

fpl-path.png

So I have the same problem on:
Rogers in Markham.
Cogeco in Niagara Falls.
Bell DSL in Toronto.
10meg Fibre in Toronto.

That makes it pretty clear to me that the issue is nothing to do with the internet connection being used, or it affects a lot of the GTA area...

I tested both ATA’s on the fibre, the PAP2T and GrandStream HT502.
The PAP2T was actually behaving better of the two.
But both had the split second sound drop out issue.

I also used two different phones on each.
One a year old panasonic cordless that I have been using the whole time back when FPL was perfect.
And a hard wired default Bell phone.
Both behaved exactly the same.

So that rules out:
ISP
ATA device
Phone handset

Plotting the path the different connections all take different paths.
My Rogers at home path has a last hop address of 38.104.159.126 before getting to FPL at 208.65.240.142.
The Fibre’s second last hop is 198.32.245.78 (torontointernetxchange.net).


The only variables I see left are something on FPL’s end.
Or something to do with all connections around the GTA, including down to Niagara, but the Rogers and Fibre take a completely different path so I don’t see how that would be it.
And also if that was the case it should affect all voip providers, not just FPL.

Maybe the path into FPL, is it different somehow for some accounts/providers vs others?

I really don’t know what other steps I could take in order to find the problem.
To me the only common element is the FPL server.

Ideas?

Brent

[Yroc]

I too have been having this issue on Rogers in Ottawa using PAP2P

[Red89GT]

I have been getting this recently as well.

setup as follows
Shaw high speed
d-link dir-615 w/ddwrt
pap2

I don't recall the issue before the last upgrade. Funnily enough I find it cuts out most often when im talking to my gf (home & cell) versus other people.

[beverly]

Makes me wonder if all the ISP's got together and said FPL is going down...

[FONGO_steve]

brentw - I'm going to try something on your account this morning. Can you let me know if you see any changes at all? It'll either change something, or not work, so you don't need to worry about me taking down your phone or anything

Edit: change made

[Jake]

I try not to use the phone that much, but my wife does and I just asked her about it. She said that the person she was on the phone with just then says it keeps cutting out on her.
I tested a few things and sure enough, we have the slight sound drop also. Here is my setup -

1. FPL SuperSpeed DSL
2. Thompson TG784 router with 2 phone ports.
3. PAP2T with 2 phone ports.
4. 3CX softphone on my computer.

All of the phones are connected to a Freeswitch softpbx on a computer in the basement (not that that matters )

I have tested calls from the Thompson router, the PAP2T, and the 3CX softphone, and I get dropped sound on all of them.

This is my tracert to voip.freephoneline.ca

Code: Select all

Tracing route to voip.freephoneline.ca [208.65.240.142]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    83 ms    99 ms    99 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
  2    18 ms    19 ms    18 ms  172.16.2.1
  3    39 ms   207 ms   210 ms  74.205.221.2
  4    18 ms    17 ms    17 ms  host-208-65-240-142.static.295.ca [208.65.240.142]

Trace complete.

From this, I don't think it is anything to do with the equipment used (ata/softphone,etc), nor the ISP as many different ones are used in this thread. That doesn't leave too much I also call back to the UK via another VOIP provider, and that call is fine using the same equipment and ISP. The only difference is the VOIP company.

Hope this helps some. As I said, it doesn't bother me as I don't use the phone too much, but I can see how it can be annoying.

[brentw]

Thanks Steve.
Still happening.

Called voicemail for a total of 5 minutes doing the cycling between menus.
These are the times that it cutout for a split second.
0:36 0:51 1:15 1:48 3:39 3:54 4:01 4:34 4:44 4:59

Brent

[FONGO_steve]

Thanks for the feedback brent - I am emailing some of our top engineers/programmers on this right now. Given the changes I have tried to no avail, the changes you have tried (appreciate all the feedback and info by the way), and the reports for others, I'd like them to closely examine our side.

I ran a call through our voicemail system for a couple minutes and didn't have this happen at all while using your account. It's also rather puzzling that laurent also couldn't duplicate this with your account.

I will keep everyone updated as I get updates myself on this Please feel free to continue sharing any information that we may find relevant.

[laurent]

Note that I only ran one test of 5 minutes (from each side). Perhaps I ought to repeat the test just to be sure...

[brentw]

Sounds good.
Reminder post 7 of this thread has a zip file attached with 5 audio files.
You could pass that on to the programmers so they could hear the problem for themselves.

[brentw]

Yes go for it if you get a chance Laurent.

Have a listen to the audio files in post 7 to hear what I am talking about exactly too.
I keep the menus going constantly in voicemail so the girl is always talking, if there's silcence on the call then obviously wouldn't hear the sound cutting out...

[noroger]

I have the exact same issue. Sound cuts out for half a second at random times, sometimes for me, and sometimes for the person that is trying to hear me. How do I know? The person that I'm calling keeps asking me what I just said a second ago.
Very annoying... it has been like this for quite some time now, and I kept trying to fix it: upgrading firmware on on my ATA, router, changing settings on my ATA. Nothing helped.
As I'm reading other people's posts, I see that I'm not the only one with the same problem.

[westalex]

I'm not sure if this is coincidence, but I only started to experience the same symptoms since the upgrade of the new system... Never had that issues before. At first, I thought this was the results was my network, etc... but apparently I'm not the only one here...Does anyone else have any suggestions? The problem seems to be present on the PAP2T with the most recent firmware upgrade,et c... This is getting really annoying ... Please help!

[Joe B]

I have the same issue, voice cutting out. I am using Linksys PAP2T with Firmware Version: 3.1.15(LS)
I tried connecting straight to the cable modem and things seem to work perfect for almost an hour but today it started all over again.

[Bob]

Thanks for the feedback brent - I am emailing some of our top engineers/programmers on this right now. Given the changes I have tried to no avail, the changes you have tried (appreciate all the feedback and info by the way), and the reports for others, I'd like them to closely examine our side.

I ran a call through our voicemail system for a couple minutes and didn't have this happen at all while using your account. It's also rather puzzling that laurent also couldn't duplicate this with your account.

I will keep everyone updated as I get updates myself on this Please feel free to continue sharing any information that we may find relevant.

Hi Steve,
I just got a complaint from my friend that he isn't able to understand me at all due to frequent problems. As I currently (due to all hassle) have two FPL lines and one bell at home, I tried several things and in my case it looks like I have no visible problem when I call from FPL to FPL ( I speak on it for almost ten minutes w/o any problem ), but if I initiate call from Bell I start having some troubles right away after call start ( on grandstream 386 , which has QoS for high priority and had no problem in previous conversation ) . It's still not as bad as it was reported, but pretty obvious.

Thus I have to assume that it really looks like workload issue on the server side, most probably on analog part of it .

Hope it helps,
Bob

[FONGO_steve]

Has anyone else had a chance to experiment with QoS in their setup and had any adverse affects on it?

The most difficult thing is that I can't reproduce this issue here no matter who's account I try it on that has it at their place. Looking at the call logs for these calls, we're also seeing 0 RTP packets dropped on a lot of them too. Also confusing is the fact that Laurent look BrentW's account and had no troubles when using it at his place.

We will continue looking at our side in an attempt to narrow down where this problem falls. It's not server load or anything of that means - the new server load is incredibly low - that was one of the main reasons we put the new server in!

[Jake]

I have just tried again phoning my voicemails and it is still happening.

If I call my FPL voicemail from a phone through my PAP2T, a phone connected through the Thompson router, or a SIP phone it still cuts out.

Out of curiosity I fired up a Freephoneline Softphone with my account and it still did it. And for kicks I opened up a Bud Phone and that did it also.

As far as I know I don't have a QOS setting on my router - it is the $299 one from FPL.

Something is getting dropped somewhere. What sort of network monitor can I run to see if anything is being dropped my end?

[tbrummell]

My wife gave me complete hell the other night due to drop outs, the WAF is wayyyy low right now. When I asked if she called her mom, or her mom called us, she had called mom, so that made it a long distance call. I send any 1+ to a NON FPL carrier. My drop outs were not on FPL, which I guess is somewhat good news for Steve. She was using that PAP2T though, I've asked her to use our IP phones for any of her long calls to get the WAF back in to positive numbers.

[laurent]

Count me in!

And by that, I mean that the problem just happened to me on my Grandstream HT502 ATA.

I called my voicemail to erase a message, I quickly pressed "1", and I heard:

"Fi - ir - st - me - esss - ssage"

And then the message started to play "Ou - i - bo - njou - our"

After a few seconds of horrible playback, it got smooth for the rest of the message.

Hung up, called again. It's fine. All messages play smoothly, voice prompts are fine, t's'all good.

Conclusion: What the hell?

[OverDrive]

I too have been having this issue. I am on a Cogeco connection running through my Linksys WRT54GL running DD-WRT v24-sp1 (07/27/08) std with no QOS. I have the High Speed Internet Standard which gives me a 14Mbit connection (which is true to it's speeds).

I recently referred a friend to FPL and she's having the same problem. She bought everything from FPL and has called FPL's support to try and fix the problem.

If my internet is not being used at all, I'm still receiving the cut outs randomly. Sometimes it's multiple times within a min, othertimes it's perfect for about 3-5 min and then it starts up.

I have setup my connection properly (port forwarded, etc) and this did only start happening after the upgrade that happened in October, although I didn't really start noticing it happening often enough until about 3 weeks ago to consider it a problem with FPL. I was attributing it to random packet losses, but I've been silently following this thread for a while now and finally had time to write this post.