SpeakOut and PetCanMob "UMB" users open letter to Fongo

[bylo]

[The description for this sub-forum reads, "Have a great idea? We'd love to hear it! Want to share the story of how Dell Voice is saving you money? This is the place to do it!" Well here I am ]

SpeakOut and Petro Canada Mobility "UMB" users open letter to Fongo

I'm on SpeakOut (via Robbers MVNO, ztar mobile) with unlimited 3G mobile "browsing" (aka UMB.) That costs me $11.25/month including 911 fee. Petro Canada Mobility offers a similar service at similar price also via ztar.

Here's my objective in using DV/Fongo:

When I want to call someone using DV/Fongo it costs me nothing or, if they're not in a "free" area in Canada, 2¢/min. (SO would charge me 25¢/min or more depending on where in NA I call.)

People who call my DV/Fongo number pay no more than if they called my regular 519 SpeakOut cell number. I pay nothing because all DV/Fongo incoming is free. (SO would charge me 25¢/min.)

So using DV/Fongo costs me at most 2¢/min vs. at least 25¢/min using SpeakOut. That's quite a difference and that's what makes DV/Fongo so appealing to SO/PCM users. Even better, Canadians can call me on DV/Fongo free of charge on a number they already know even when I'm travelling outside of Canada. All I need is a local SIM with local low-cost data that usually costs $1 or $2 a day or $10 to $20 a month.

All of the above seems to work fine on WiFi.

Now here's the "hitch" which is unique to SO and PCM. They offer unlimited 3G mobile "browsing" (UMB) — but not true 3G data. To accomplish this they (actually Robbers) restrict users to port 80. Right now because of this DV/Fongo can't handle SO/PCM UMB users so I can't use it on my UMB plan.

Skype for example has been able to support UMB users for some time. I can make outgoing calls on Skype under UMB using a proxy app like ProxyDroid. However Skype (a) currently doesn't offer Canadian phone numbers and (b) in countries where they do. e.g. US, they charge $60/year. Because of this Skype isn't a viable two-way solution.

DV/Fongo would be an awesome low-cost alternative to cellphone voice charges for SO/PCM users if you can get around the games that Robbers is playing. Then we could have everything—voice and data—for $11.25/mon plus the odd 2¢/min LD call. That would be the lowest cost way in Canada to operate a full-featured smartphone.

But all this depends on your cooperation. I'm hoping that you'll address this issue in due course. I realize that you're all busy right now with the DV/Fongo launch and that this can't be a priority. I'm posting this here in part to get you thinking about this opportunity as well as to see if there are other SO/PCM UMB users who want this capability. I'd be happy to work with you in testing out a version of Android DV/Fongo software that works with SO/PCM UMB.

[netyang]

I think Speak out offer is "unlimited browsing", not unlimited internet data. That the contract.

[bylo]

What contract? It's a PAYGO service.

Anyway, let's see what SpeakOut actually promises:

For $10 a month, you get unlimited browsing. This means you can surf the web, check your Facebook, or if you’re feeling hungry, find the closest 7-Eleven. All right from your phone, 24/7.

Notice that they don't define what they mean by "browsing." Notice that they don't highlight or even hint at how restrictive it really is.

Do they tell you that while you can check your Facebook using your browser, you can't do it the way everyone else with a smartphone does by using the Facebook icon that drives the Facebook app on your phone?

Do they warn you that while you can access Gmail (and Gcal etc.) using your browser, you can't use the apps that your phone manufacturer provided for your convenience on your Home screen?

Do they tell you that if you're hungry you have to use Google Search and Google Maps on your browser to find a nearby 7-11 instead of smartphone apps like everyone can do?

Using a proxy app like ProxyDroid or Autoproxy skirts their restrictions so that other VoIP services like Skype can work under UMB. DV/Fongo should do so as well.

[bridonca]

You are asking to fit 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag!

For the most part, Fongo and it's clients are based on a standards based SIP protocol. Your issue is with Speakout and 3G.

3G barely works with VOIP at the best of times, and guess who gets blamed for the poor voice quality when it happens? This is a problem Fongo cannot fix easily, because the problem is not with Fongo.

[bylo]

You are asking to fit 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag!

No. I'm asking them to do what Skype does.

For the most part, Fongo and it's clients are based on a standards based SIP protocol. Your issue is with Speakout and 3G.

So how does Skype manage to do what it does despite that?

3G barely works with VOIP at the best of times, and guess who gets blamed for the poor voice quality when it happens? This is a problem Fongo cannot fix easily, because the problem is not with Fongo.

Once more, Skype works well over 3G. I'm only asking Fongo to do with Dell Voice what Skype already does.

[netyang]

"I'm asking them to do what Skype does",
So weird, Who are you do you think? why not ask youself to do it? who are the userS ask you to write the open letter?

actually, Dell Voice and freephoneline work very well on speakout 3G. Why need change? Why don't you ask skype to offer you free canada call and canada numbers? And write a open letter to them ?

"Once more, Skype works well over 3G."
OK. You keep use skype.

[FONGO_steve]

Thank you for highlighting the troubles you are having with using the service over the slightly more restrictive SpeakOut mobile network.

I will ensure that your letter makes it to the appropriate individuals within our company to see what can be done on our side to better accommodate this in future releases!

[sukasem]

Once more, Skype works well over 3G. I'm only asking Fongo to do with Dell Voice what Skype already does.

Skype use port 80 so, it might get passed as browsing. But I don't think Skype works by default, you need AutoProxy right?
But DellVoice use standard SIP port 5060 (I guess) so, it won't work with UMB.

[Cemetery21]

So and PCM are apparently coming out with a data plan i would expect something in the range of what rogers offers with it pay as you go data. For now if you root your android and use auto proxy fongo should work. Funny thing is last month fongo would have worked fine when rogers and SO were testing the 3G service for SO. I think SO wants to get out of UMB becasue it isn't a feature worth offering.

[bylo]

I normally don't respond to rude people but in this case I'll make an exception to clarify the misconceptions.

So weird, Who are you do you think? why not ask youself to do it? who are the userS ask you to write the open letter?

There are quite a few people on RFD who would love to be able to use DV/Fongo with SpeakOut UMB. See e.g. these threads: Speakout data and android... calling all users for tips/tricks and Fongo.com - Talk Freely To The World - FREE MOBILE Phone Service!

actually, Dell Voice and freephoneline work very well on speakout 3G. Why need change?

Really? Then maybe you can do something positive by explaining how it's done.

[bylo]

Skype use port 80 so, it might get passed as browsing. But I don't think Skype works by default, you need AutoProxy right?
But DellVoice use standard SIP port 5060 (I guess) so, it won't work with UMB.

Yes, you need a proxy. The point is that there are other cellphone carriers besides SO/PCM who try to stop their customers from using VoIP because of the revenue they stand to lose. That means that DV/Fongo users who travel, buy local data SIMs, etc. and try to make DV calls over 3G will run into trouble. This negatively impacts the benefit of DV/Fongo to those users no matter who their Canadian cell carrier may be. It means, for example, that these travelling users can't reliably stay in touch with family and friends using their DV number.

I use Skype as an example because it demonstrates that workarounds are possible. As I said in my initial post, I'm asking Fongo to consider doing something like Skype does in order to increase the value of DV to those of us who have to deal with "anti-VoIP" carriers. I'm not "demanding" anything. I realize that this isn't Fongo's top priority. But I think it should be on their "to-do" list for the reasons I've given upthread.

[netyang]

Really? Then maybe you can do something positive by explaining how it's done.

Same as me, I Never reply rude and greedy people except this time. Why I need to explaining. I keep using Speakout and Dell voice, you keep use skype.

[myboat]

Strong support!!!

[chancet]

Please allow Fongo to work through port 80... please!

[leper1983]

What he's trying to get at is to have additional ways to connect which would in turn make the app that much better because then more people would end up using it more often

[j8van]

I agree with bridonca and netyang, bylo should have at least had this request in a friendlier way, and this "open letter" should be written by a person who is more techically knowledgable, now it sounds like DV/Fongo owes him a lot.

[bylo]

bylo should have at least had this request in a friendlier way

Could you please elaborate on that.

this "open letter" should be written by a person who is more techically knowledgable

What technical knowledge do you believe is lacking in my understanding of the problem or in my request for resolution?

now it sounds like DV/Fongo owes him a lot

Could you please elaborate on that.

[netyang]

What technical knowledge do you believe is lacking in my understanding of the problem or in my request for resolution?

Ha!, My wife and I use 7-11 for years. It's so awesome. I think there are a lot things you need to learn. Don't just command people do something for YOU. First, you should learn more about VOIP technology and check your settings. Then at least, you should write a polite suggestion to ask if Dell Voice can support VPN to use http and port 80/443 or not. I really believe you know what's "open letter" means.

good luck

[bylo]

Ha!, My wife and I use 7-11 for years. It's so awesome.

The relevance of this is??? (BTW my wife and I have been using SO for years too. I agree it's awesome. So what does this have to do with DV/Fongo?)

I think there are a lot things you need to learn.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain some of them. After all this forum is about helping people get the most out of DV/Fongo. If you've got a technique for using DV/Fongo on SO UMB despite the restrictions imposed by Robbers then you'd do a lot of people—not just me—a great favour by sharing the details. I'm sure we'd all appreciate that. Instead all you've done here so far is complain about and insult someone who's asking for help.

Don't just command people do something for YOU.

I didn't "command" anyone to do anything. I explained that DV/Fongo doesn't work with SO UMB and on other carriers that have disabled VoIP. I did this in part because people on other threads reported that it didn't work. Then I asked the support people politely to consider making an update to their app so it works in this environment. I also pointed out the benefits to them and to their users in doing so.

Since you seem to have missed it, let me repeat the relevant part of my first post for your benefit:

DV/Fongo would be an awesome low-cost alternative to cellphone voice charges for SO/PCM users if you can get around the games that Robbers is playing. Then we could have everything—voice and data—for $11.25/mon plus the odd 2¢/min LD call. That would be the lowest cost way in Canada to operate a full-featured smartphone.

But all this depends on your cooperation. I'm hoping that you'll address this issue in due course. I realize that you're all busy right now with the DV/Fongo launch and that this can't be a priority. I'm posting this here in part to get you thinking about this opportunity as well as to see if there are other SO/PCM UMB users who want this capability. I'd be happy to work with you in testing out a version of Android DV/Fongo software that works with SO/PCM UMB.

If you believe that this is a "command" then please explain why.

I really believe you know what's "open letter" means.

Yes, I do. You seem to think that an open letter is somehow inappropriate here. You might want to familiarize yourself with the meaning of this term: Open letter

An open letter is a letter that is intended to be read by a wide audience, or a letter intended for an individual, but that is nonetheless widely distributed intentionally. Open letters usually take the form of a letter addressed to an individual but provided to the public through newspapers and other media, such as a letter to the editor or blog...

There are a number of reasons why an individual would choose the form of an open letter, including the following reasons:
• To state the author's position on a particular issue
• As an attempt to start or end a wider dialogue around an issue
...

Note too that I started my open letter as follows, "[The description for this sub-forum reads, "Have a great idea? We'd love to hear it! Want to share the story of how Dell Voice is saving you money? This is the place to do it!" Well here I am ]" In other words, Fongo asked for a "great idea" and I provided what I believe is one such.

If you still think this open letter is inappropriate I'd sincerely appreciate reading your explanation of why you think so. Thank you.

[optimus1]

Wow, I can't believe this.Talk about the nerve of some people! You are basically asking dv/fongo to argue on your behalf to another phone company,, speakout/petrocan/ that you are paying to much,and( you want a workaround).Yet,you are only paying $11.25/month for your phone bill? In total!! Who the hell are you,are you for real?? You think you should get unlimited browsing plus data! Whats the data for,so you can download torrents all day for a measly 11.25 per month? Its people like you that ruin it for everyone else,shame on you!!

[bylo]

You are basically asking dv/fongo to argue on your behalf to another phone company,, speakout/petrocan/ that you are paying to much,and( you want a workaround).

How so? I'm merely asking DV/Fongo to look into ways of circumventing blocks that some carriers put on VoIP, including on users of their regular data plans.

And it's not just SpeakOut/PCM. It's also other carriers around the world.

And it's not just cellphone data either. Some hotels, cafés, etc. block VoIP in order to force people to pay outrageous fees to make phone calls, especially long distance and when roaming outside of Canada. See also this thread: How do you use this app on the road?

Who the hell are you,are you for real?? You think you should get unlimited browsing plus data!

Typical response from a naive Canadian who apparently knows nothing about what data costs are like in a truly competitive environment, i.e. outside the Canadian telco oligopoly. In Europe I pay about $11.25 per month for 1GB data. And that's from national carriers, not just some obscure MVNO.

Whats the data for,so you can download torrents all day for a measly 11.25 per month?

Not that it's any of your business but I've never downloaded a single torrent using a cellphone or cellphone modem data plan. In fact I doubt I've ever used even 100MB in one month. And that includes when SpeakOut did offer unlimited, unrestricted 3G data for $11.25 a month that got badly abused by those who did run torrents, tether their notebooks and otherwise abuse their connection.

Its people like you that ruin it for everyone else,shame on you!!

So do pray tell: What am I ruining and how am I doing it?

[netyang]

You guys should look at this topic and see how greedy some people are. When they buy airtime at 7-11 promotion(like last Dec.), actually they just pay $9(include tax) a month for everything. This is the best deal in whole world I think. I always help people before, but finally I realize not all people deserve to help because they are too greedy. So don't ask me about the 7-11 data, it's not just settings.

[def]

wow...bylo I feel your pain. The 'support' offered here is even ruder than RTFM! Is there noone in that can post an answer instead of an insult? I myself am trying to get freephoneline.ca working with Ubuntu - trying to work it through WINE now (in my first 20 minutes of looking).

responses from bylo welcome. insults from others can just be saved. they are of no use to anyone. We are supposed to be a community of users or geeks or computer enthusiasts or even just ppl that want to look at other telephone options. I apologize for my own somewhat rude post, but I did just register so I could post this.

thanks for reading and hopefully understanding. we do all have the option of being friendly neighbours - you don't need to shoot my dog to greet me!

def

[TheHardy]

Your post comes after the last one of 25 Feb .... so 4+ months. The OP did not even come back to post, and it has been a long time since he even logged in; so I ain't shooting your dog, but I am wondering what good you hope to bring by hashing up an old thread.

Is there a bridge missing it's troll? Or did you just feel the overwhelming need to post on a VERY old topic??

[dom]

I myself am trying to get freephoneline.ca working with Ubuntu - trying to work it through WINE now (in my first 20 minutes of looking).

My suggestion would be to post in the Desktop thread to try to get support for getting freephoneline to work on Ubuntu.