Wondering on which side I should stand

[callopsitte]

Recap of events:

April 2009: Paid a config file + porting of number. After payments were taken I was told FPL could not port my number and I wouldn't be reimbursed. Thought to leave it as it was (didn't have a choice anyway) for when porting would be possible then it would be automatically done since it was paid for. Still believed in FPL then.

March 2010: My sister in law from Alfred On bought a configuration file and paid for porting after we verified it was possible. 46 days later the porting wasn't still done. I contacted FPL and they told me they "lost" her LOA (a chance I contacted them I would have neve known). Redone the LOA and she got ported ASAP (53 days in all).

Then for two full weeks she could not both receive or send any calls. When contacting on the forum it was supposed it was her ATA settings. Finally Kris checked it out and it was repaired. We are now Friday May 14th. But it took many e-mails to get answered (two days without responses from FPL. That's long when you have no phone at all) + a letter to the CRTC.

I then discover that Hawkesbury, my hometown, can be called. I post on the forum asking if it's an accident while connecting Alfred and if I am now able to finally port my number. Kris answered me that he will respond the next Monday.

Meanwhile I fax the CRTC to withdraw what FPL thought was a complaint regarding all this as they found it "very regretful and hope it would not shake my faith in FPL".

Moday May 17th: Kris PM me to say I can port my Hawkesbury number. We email back and forth (some PM) as there seem to be some "catch". Finally after having sent a new LOA and about 10 PM later Kris informs me on the 18th of May FPL cannot port my number and will get back to me for reimbursement.

I respond to that with some more questions but never hear back from them neither to answer my questions nor about the promised reimbursement. Plus they put a RESOLVED on my PM.

So now I really wonder if I should keep faith about FPL and continue to talk in good about them or really complain and spread the word that they don't care and rip people off.

As for the withdrawal of what they took as a complaint to the CRTC I also faxed a copy to the Minister of industry about finding ways to help expand the VoIP industry. Those were favorable words for FPL and a citizen action to help out both FPL and finding a solution for my region and me to have access to that technology.

So now, who wants to tell me where I should stand in regard to this and many other complaints I read both on this forum and elsewhere on the internet.

P.S. I wonder if some responses were intentionnally sent in PM so they would not be visible to all (not to show faults) and not printable for future needs? Sorry but Win to PDF does the job.

[FONGO_steve]

I know we're working on several automated systems for the porting process which should make nearly a 0% error ratio in the future. It'll check numbers against several tables of rate centers and the system will instantly know whether or not a number will be portable. Instead of having the ratio of human error now, where we have some areas that are on-net to us, but, don't have DID's available and thus aren't portable.

Most response's were PM'd/emailed from Kris to you and not posted publicly here due to the confidential nature of people's accounts in question - unfortunately this does make it seem like some posts were unanswered, despite the fact they were answered, just in a different place.

In regards to VOIP expanding - there really is no strict document anywhere that says "if you're a phone carrier, you have to cover all of Canada". We are able to cover the areas that are ON-NET to us and that we have our network coverage in. A phone carrier may or may not choose to cover only some cities in Canada, or all of Canada. They may cover one city, but not the one next to it, it's all based on where they want their network to cover. In your case, we do cover many regions nearby to you (larger metropolitan areas), but have not yet expanded into your region. I'm sure we will be there someday, but it's a costly venture. Look at the new Wind Mobile - they only cover a small percentage of Canada, and are a country wide recognized Cell phone carrier (much larger than a VOIP carrier). There's really very little that the government can do to make a carrier expand their coverage area - it's all up to what areas the carrier wants to invest their money into. In our case, in order to remain free, we are building our own VOIP network across Canada. Most carriers pay dozens of different providers in all the different Canadian regions to bring their coverage to larger crowds - but this involves money and bill-paying customers - and we're all about keeping this free!

In regards to the slow response you received from our end - I've made sure your complaints were passed to the appropriate people as I do agree that the parties involved on our end were not as prompt with this issue as they should have been. When it comes to big issues like this, it's not a bad idea to find a phone and call us rather than rely on email/PMing. The board PM system relies on many factors and can sometimes loose messages - which leads users to think they were ignored, when they may not have even been received.

[callopsitte]

Finally got some answers. I'll do the follow-up by e-mail.

PM from Kris of FPL, May 20th 2010.

-Kris. "This question I believe is answered in full below, if not you can always email me - PMs only get checked when I'm at work or have free time at home, emails go to my berry..."

-Me. For two days I did not get an answer but when going on the forum while not being logged in I did see Amin logged in several times those two days.

-Kris. "...The routing for your sister to call out had to be added on her phone number as an individual case, since it was added in error some on our part some on the Bell side of things..."

-Me. So my sister in law was an isolated case that FPL fixed because FPL had done wrong saying she could be ported and she had paid. 13 month ago FPL also told me they could port me and took $69,95 + taxes from me but they did not. Isn't that an exact same case? Why can't FPL fix it the same way? Because she's a woman? You know her personnaly and intimitely? Why???

-Kris. "...since it is such a small community and they cannot afford to give away 10,000 numbers for free (or at all)"

-Me. Hawkesbury and it's surrounding = 31874 inhabitants. FPL provides porting and phone lines for: Brockville = 21 957 inhabitants; Baden = 17 097 inhabitants; Cardinal = 6 689 inhabitants; Tottenham = 27 701 inhabitants. Source, Statistics Canada 2006 census. And Hawkesbury is not big enough a community compared to those???

Secondly who are "they" that cannot afford to give DIDs? Have you tried approching them? Can I be allowed to know who they are. I will approch them maybe we'll be surprised.

From forum. Topic "Wondering on which side should I stand" May 20th 2010.

-Steve. "... A phone carrier may or may not choose to cover only some cities in Canada, or all of Canada..." "...In your case, we do cover many regions nearby to you (larger metropolitan areas), but have not yet expanded into your region. I'm sure we will be there someday, but it's a costly venture."

-Me. A polite way to say, "we do not want to invest in your area." Also very contradictory to what FPL promotes in it's FAQ, "With the status we have we are able to work on expanding to eventually cover all of Canada with free phone lines!"

-Steve. "There's really very little that the government can do to make a carrier expand their coverage area - it's all up to what areas the carrier wants to invest their money into".

-Me. Probably a response to my letter to Minister of industry where I ask to help the industry and technology. Right, if governments are to grant money to a company they will refuse it!!! We all know that it's part of the deal to keep companies to stay or grow is how much $$$ the government grants them; Why did General Motors and many others closed?!

-Steve. "In our case, in order to remain free, we are building our own VOIP network across Canada".

-Me. Telecom order CRTC 2007-269, File #8340-R22-200709454. Rogers Cable Communications Inc./Fibernetics Corporation - Master Agreement for Interconnection between Local Exchange Carriers.

Steve. "The board PM system relies on many factors and can sometimes loose messages - which leads users to think they were ignored, when they may not have even been received."

-Me. They finally have all been replied to after I posted in the forums my disappointment or disagreement with FPL. I guess they don't get lost.

By the way I forgot this one:

PM from Kris May 18th 2010

-Kris. "I'll get on that refund you should be receiving".

-Me. Not heard of since then, neither in the PM sent afterwards nor other ways of communication.

Not only am I doing this for myself but for a whole community who has the right to evolve with the help of technology as it is and should be accessible.

[FONGO_steve]

-Me. Hawkesbury and it's surrounding = 31874 inhabitants. FPL provides porting and phone lines for: Brockville = 21 957 inhabitants; Baden = 17 097 inhabitants; Cardinal = 6 689 inhabitants; Tottenham = 27 701 inhabitants. Source, Statistics Canada 2006 census. And Hawkesbury is not big enough a community compared to those???

Baden is part of the Kitchener-Waterloo rate center - a rate center which probably has nearly half a million people in it. A city in itself is much different than a rate center - which is what we look at from a telco point of view as a phone number is valid in a rate center as a whole, not just a specific city.

Secondly who are "they" that cannot afford to give DIDs? Have you tried approching them? Can I be allowed to know who they are. I will approch them maybe we'll be surprised.

We buy the DID's from the North American Numbering Plan Administration when we wish to expand into a city. No one but us (Fibernetics) decides when we will expand into a city. We are doing this as fast as we can, but like I've said countless times before, it's a costly and time consuming venture. It's not just as easy as buying some DID's and providing service - there's a large amount of technical, legal, and administrative work into expanding a network. This is happening as fast as it can, but can't happen overnight.

-Steve. "... A phone carrier may or may not choose to cover only some cities in Canada, or all of Canada..." "...In your case, we do cover many regions nearby to you (larger metropolitan areas), but have not yet expanded into your region. I'm sure we will be there someday, but it's a costly venture."

-Me. A polite way to say, "we do not want to invest in your area." Also very contradictory to what FPL promotes in it's FAQ, "With the status we have we are able to work on expanding to eventually cover all of Canada with free phone lines!"

Re-read what I said - I never said we aren't expanding into your area. I realize you are angry we don't have coverage there, but as I just said above, we can't magically cover all of Canada overnight. We will eventually cover all of Canada, yes, but it will be done in the order that the higher ups decide it will.

-Steve. "In our case, in order to remain free, we are building our own VOIP network across Canada".

-Me. Telecom order CRTC 2007-269, File #8340-R22-200709454. Rogers Cable Communications Inc./Fibernetics Corporation - Master Agreement for Interconnection between Local Exchange Carriers.

Interconnection and network coverage are two VERY different things. I'm not going to break down the basics of telecommunication here for you as it's a college course at the very least.



I am locking this topic
It's clear that you are angry we do not have coverage in your city yet, but it won't happen overnight as I've said. Posting harsh posts like this also won't make it happen any faster. Also, a lot of your points seem to be based on not understanding how telecomunication networks and carriers work - to prevent turning this post into a chaptered story book, you can PM me any questions you may have about the telco world and I'll try to answer them or point you to a resource that can.