Unauthorized caller on the line while talking!

[Savario]

someone calls me on my freephoneline.ca number, it gets forwarded to my own land line number and I answer the call normally and have a conversation. Someone else (an unknown spammer who sends faxes) calls the same freephoneline.ca number and all the sudden they take over the line while I am in a middle of the conversation! We can both hear the fax screeching tones trying to make a connection. The original call is disconnected and i'm listening to fax tones. Obviously the fax doesn't complete.

Now I know it originated from my freephoneline.ca number because about 30 minutes to 1 hour later, I get the same fax call on my land line (via freephoneline). I verified it originated from freephoneline.ca because the usual fax spammer "anonymous" call is in my logs.

[Mango]

Do you have an alarm system? The sound is similar.

[Savario]

no,it was definitely a fax machine , it had the on off calling tone. Data connections via a modem do not use that tone.

...it just took over the line ....that is a privacy concern.

[Savario]

i hooked up the fax machine when it happened again

and of course, it was a fax.

3 pages of spam faxes for window installations and selling fax broadcasting services

[Savario]

still happening.
someone calls my freephoneline number, it gets forwarded to my land-line and I answer the call.
someone else calls the freephoneline number a few minutes later using a fax machine...
I hear the fax machine and call #1 gets disconnected.

How do I turn off CALL WAITING on the freephoneline account? When I call my line using a different line, it reports a busy signal so how is this fax caller getting through the line? It disconnects my voice conversation and kicks into the unauthorized fax caller....

[Liptonbrisk]

I've never heard of a secondary caller being able to barge in on an existing call on a landline before without the landline's owner doing something on his or her end. I suspect this is some weird bug with your landline or your phones at home, and I would contact your landline provider. You haven't mentioned whether your landline service actually supports call waiting either.

Call waiting service can be disabled in your ATA. Refer to your ATA's manual or user guide. Call Waiting service can not be disabled in your online FPL account.

Concerning fax spam, this is one of the better posts I've read on the subject: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/fido-wir ... #p25059721.

[Savario]

yes it is a strange problem. I have isolated it to the FPL account and not my Bell line. The fax calls are originating via the FPL account and are being forwarded to my Bell POTS Line which has caller id and visual call waiting. For that to actually happen, my Bell line would indicate a 2nd call coming through. That never happens. So effectively, the 2nd FAX call is NEVER forwarded to my Bell line. The call is being routed via FPL...to the same existing line that is already open.

If I call myself using my Bell assigned telephone while it is in use, Visual caller ID and Call Waiting works as it should. If I call my freephoneline.ca line while its in use (from a 3rd and different telephone number), its reports a BUSY tone? So I assume Call Waiting is OFF or not supported? So how is it possible this spammer is getting through the line? I have verified this fax spammer is calling my fpl.ca number. These fax calls are recorded as "Anonymous" in my FPL.ca logs.

My guess is fpl.ca has some sort of fax support built in to its own lines..and this spammer is using it? . I don't have an ATA device or the SIP settings...I'm using fpl.ca only for incoming calls forwarding to another city so I am unable to make any changes on an ATA

[Liptonbrisk]

My land-line is a traditional POTS Bell line, it does support call-waiting and visual Caller ID. There is no visual caller ID, or incoming caller tone reported by my POTS line when this fax barges into the line.

I rarely use Follow Me with Freephoneline, so I'm not entirely sure what's going on unless Freephoneline is bridging the second call, and then, perhaps due to a bug, dropping the first bridged call.

1. incoming call>>>>>FPL bridges the call>>>>>>outgoing to your landline

2. incoming call>>>FPL attempts to bridge the call>>>>drops first call and bridges the second call

I know Freephoneline only supports a maximum of two outbound simultaneous call trunks per account, but this situation still doesn't make sense to me.

If I call my freephoneline.ca line while its in use (from a 3rd and different telephone number), its reports a BUSY tone? So I assume Call Waiting is OFF or not supported?

Call Waiting is supported with all Freephoneline phone numbers, provided Freephoneline sees that you have a device online. Normally, if you're offline, then all callers will immediately get Freephoneline's voicemail. If Follow Me is enabled, the call is forwarded. After that, though, I have no clue what happens if another caller dials your Freephoneline number when you're supposed to be offline. More importantly and significantly, Freephoneline doesn't like busy tones. All calls are either picked up or sent to FPL's voicemail system. Freephoneline makes money from incoming termination fees to its network. If the call to you isn't completed, they don't get money. Busy tones means no money. So, the busy tone seems unusual to me. Rather than a busy tone, the caller should reach Freephoneline's voicemail.

So how is it possible

The busy tone makes no sense to me. That I find a lot stranger than the second call coming in, except for the part where the second call replaces your first one.

this spammer is getting through the line?

The second call going through is less odd than the busy signal to me.

My guess is fpl.ca has some sort of fax support built in to its own lines..and this spammer is using it?

I don't think I understand what you mean. The spammer is hardly using it if you're the one forwarding all incoming FPL calls to your landline.
The robodialer is just calling and has no way of knowing whether you're using a VoIP service that supports faxes. For all it knows, you have a landline. Landlines work better with faxing anyway.
These fax callers are basically robodialers. They just have a list of phone numbers that are called automatically.

Freephoneline does work with T.38 fax protocol, and if Freephoneline's voicemail picks up, the incoming fax will be converted to a pdf file automatically.

I don't have an ATA device or the SIP settings...I'm using fpl.ca strickly for incoming calls forwarding to another city so I am unable to make any changes on an ATA

Possibly there's a star code that can be used with the desktop application that would allow you to disable call waiting, but I'm not sure that star code would be. I'm not familiar with the desktop app.
If you're not using the desktop app, it seems to me that the second call should just be directed to Freephoneline's voicemail system by default.

At any rate, you may be encountering a Follow Me bug that I've never experienced before.

If these are Canadian fax spammers, you might want to register your Freephoneline number with the Do Not Call List. https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/insnum-regnum-eng
I would read this post first though so that you know what the potential drawbacks are: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/fido-wir ... #p25059721.

Sorry, I don't know what is causing the first call to drop, unless it's due to a Follow Me bug.

[Savario]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I only use the Follow Me settings. I don't use the software dialer so I'm never registered as on-line and the calls are always forwarded to my land-line. I've set up SEQUENTIAL and ALWAYS CALL FORWARD in the Follow Me Settings. In the "Follow Me Numbers" I have my land-line and cell-phone. It is set to wait for 12 rings until trying the next number, and since my land-line has voice mail it will answer usually within 6-7 rings so it should never forward to my cell-phone unless the voice mail doesn't answer for some reason (or there is a problem with the line or fpl). Since my calls are always answered by my own voice mail, I never use the FreePhoneline.ca voice mail option.

I don't think I understand what you mean. The spammer is hardly using it if you're the one forwarding all incoming FPL calls to your landline.
The robodialer is just calling and has no way of knowing whether you're using a VoIP service that supports faxes. For all it knows, you have a landline. Landlines work better with faxing anyway.
These fax callers are basically robodialers. They just have a list of phone numbers that are called automatically.

My thoughts that there was an internal method to send voice mail to other users using FPL or Fongo? and the system will detecting incoming fax tones in voice mail and switch to fax mode?

The second call going through is less odd than the busy signal to me.

Actually, I just tried this again. Had 3 lines going. dialed fpl with phone #2, answered land-line phone #1 then called fpl with phone line #3. It is not a busy signal. It is a message "The user you are trying to reach is unavailable.".

As for the Do Not Call List..The spammer is a single caller, same person or organization that is faxing. They've been doing it for at least 5 years now. Its not that annoying because I can block them..its only a problem when I happen to be on the line and they call... Only Legitimate companies follow the do-not-call list...the problem are the illegitimate ones, so the do not call list does not work to well.

[Liptonbrisk]

I only use the Follow Me settings. I don't use the software dialer

Okay, so there's no way for you to disable call waiting with FPL.

You can disable call waiting on your landline.

so I'm never registered as on-line and the calls are always forwarded to my land-line. I've set up SEQUENTIAL and ALWAYS CALL FORWARD in the Follow Me Settings. In the "Follow Me Numbers" I have my land-line and cell-phone. It is set to wait for 12 rings until trying the next number, and since my land-line has voice mail it will answer usually within 6-7 rings so it should never forward to my cell-phone unless the voice mail doesn't answer for some reason (or there is a problem with the line or fpl). Since my calls are always answered by my own voice mail, I never use the FreePhoneline.ca voice mail option.

The point I'm making is that incoming calls to an FPL phone number are always picked up. If the call isn't answered by your landline, or cellphone, the call will go the FPL's voicemail. No matter what the phone call will be picked up.

I just did a test for you. I called an FPL phone number that wasn't registered to any device or softphone, and set up sequential follow me with always call forward to two phone numbers. Same 12 rings.

I answered the first call on the first forwarded number. I kept the call open. Then I called from another number to the FPL number. The first forwarded number rang and rang (showed that call waiting was working), and finally the voicemail for the first forwarded phone number picked up the call.

That is to say, everything worked as expected, and I didn't get a busy signal. More importantly, the second incoming call was unable to barge in without my permission. I suppose I can try this again, some day, when I'm not busy, by trying to send a fax for the second call. That's a bit inconvenient for me though to test.

When you say you're getting a busy signal, are you testing by making calls using one of the phone numbers you're forwarding to? If so, you shouldn't be.

My thoughts that there was an internal method to send voice mail to other users using FPL or Fongo?

Not that I'm aware of. I've looked for an option to do that before, and it doesn't seem possible with FPL's voicemail system.

There is a way to check your voicemail remotely, but that doesn't allow you to send anything to anyone else:
http://support.freephoneline.ca/hc/en-u ... ly#ontario

and the system will detecting incoming fax tones in voice mail and switch to fax mode?

Your FPL voicemail would need to pick up the call first. And then it would just convert the incoming fax to a PDF file. That's it.

Actually, I just tried this again. Had 3 lines going. dialed fpl with phone #2, answered land-line phone #1 then called fpl with phone line #3. It is not a busy signal. It is a message "The user you are trying to reach is unavailable.".

It would be good to know what phone number (FPL, Landline, or cellphone) is generating that message.

When you're testing, you can't use phone numbers in your Follow Me list to call from. That makes the test invalid, since you'll end up making a call to and from the same phone number.

As for the Do Not Call List..The spammer is a single caller, same person or organization that is faxing. They've been doing it for at least 5 years now. Its not that annoying because I can block them..its only a problem when I happen to be on the line and they call... Only Legitimate companies follow the do-not-call list...the problem are the illegitimate ones, so the do not call list does not work to well.

On the bottom of the fax, you will probably see a Canadian phone number to call. If so, the Do Not Call List helps. I know because I've tried it. What happens is that if the calls do not stop after the required amount of time, you can report that phone number on the bottom of the fax. If it's not a Canadian fax spammer, then yes, you're out of luck, and then there's the additional issue with everyone, including scammers that don't live in Canada, being able to see your FPL phone number in the Do Not Call List. If there's no verifiable (and by verifiable, I mean a working Canadian phone number that is clearly responsible for the incoming fax), Canadian phone number listed in the fax, then I wouldn't bother with the Do Not Call List.

[Savario]

The point I'm making is that incoming calls to an FPL phone number are always picked up. If the call isn't answered by your landline, or cellphone, the call will go the FPL's voicemail. No matter what the phone call will be picked up.

OK. Does your FPL record the log of that call? because my log will only show the 1st incoming call, not the 2nd incoming call.

It would be good to know what phone number (FPL, Landline, or cellphone) is generating that message.
When you're testing, you can't use phone numbers in your Follow Me list to call from. That makes the test invalid, since you'll end up making a call to and from the same phone number.

Good point. I'll remove my cell phone from the follow me list. It's possible that message was from the cell phone, not FPL. I'll try my tests again with only my land-line listed as a Follow Me number. I have 4 different lines including the land-line to test.

On the bottom of the fax, you will probably see a Canadian phone number to call.

Not so much a bother of receiving the fax, just not to receive it while on an existing call. I can block the call or the fax easy enough if it is the 1st caller. These guys have been asked before to stop faxing, they don't follow the rules.

[Liptonbrisk]

I just tried the second call with a fax machine. Edit: I used FPL though, so that's why. FPL to FPL calls are SIP URI.

Regardless, I can't barge in, so I can't reproduce your problem. Everything works as expected. I didn't let the incoming fax ring 13 times though.
The incoming fax call simply appeared as a call waiting on my caller id. I tried pressing a few buttons, but nothing I did allowed me to barge in on the existing phone call. So, I gave up, and hung up the fax machine.

OK. Does your FPL record the log of that call? because my log will only show the 1st incoming call, not the 2nd incoming call.

I'm checking FPL call logs after logging in at https://www.freephoneline.ca/doGetCallLogs.
Yes. Both are shown. The incoming caller id phone number is shown under "from", and the first forwarded phone number in my follow me list is shown under "to" in both cases.
The actual FPL phone number I dialed is not shown under "to".

These guys have been asked before to stop faxing, they don't follow the rules.

Have they been asked by the CRTC? https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/plt-cmp-eng
If they don't comply, the CRTC usually issues fines: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/do-not- ... -1.3790871
If you ask, the spammers probably won't care.

Sorry, that I can't be of more help. I did go out of my way to try to reproduce the problem, even to the extent of sending a fax with the second call.

[Savario]

thanks for testing it out and confirming how it should work. Unfortunately I tried it again and it just doesn't behave the same way on my fpl. if I am already on the line with fpl, it won't answer the call at all. It immediately reports a message "The user you are trying to reach is unavailable" and then continues with a busy signal. I removed my cell-phone from the follow-me rules, so only my land-line is listed as a follow me number.

so, technically its impossible for this fax to barge into my line but this has happened at least 3 times! My real concern is if a fax can barge in an open line than someone else could just as easily.

UPDATE: I turned off the Follow Me settings, so all calls get forwarded directly to fpl's voice mail. If I am currently leaving a voice mail on fpl's system, and call the fpl on another phone it answers "The user you are trying to reach is unavailable." and busy signal. So.....something is abviously different on my fpl account and has nothing to do with the follow me settings.

[Liptonbrisk]

UPDATE: I turned off the Follow Me settings, so all calls get forwarded directly to fpl's voice mail. If I am currently leaving a voice mail on fpl's system, and call the fpl on another phone it answers "The user you are trying to reach is unavailable." and busy signal. So.....something is abviously different on my fpl account and has nothing to do with the follow me settings.

That's normal on all FPL accounts where the second incoming call is not from another FPL, Fongo Mobile, or Fongo Home Phone number. FPL's voicemail won't pick up the second call while the first one is already engaged.

[Savario]

That's normal on all FPL accounts. FPL's voicemail won't pick up the second call while the first one is already engaged.

ok, but from this I can conclude that the voice message I hear "The user you are trying to reach is not available" is generated by FPL's systems. So, that message isn't generated by Bell, my cell-phone provider or any number forwarded by the follow me service (as I disabled it). If the 2nd simultaneous caller hears that message, and somehow they are still getting through to bump/eavesdrop my existing conversation then something is seriously wrong with my FPL account (or perhaps all FPL accounts...)

[Liptonbrisk]

That's normal on all FPL accounts. FPL's voicemail won't pick up the second call while the first one is already engaged.

ok, but from this I can conclude that the voice message I hear "The user you are trying to reach is not available" is generated by FPL's systems. So, that message isn't generated by Bell, my cell-phone provider or any number forwarded by the follow me service (as I disabled it). If the 2nd simultaneous caller hears that message, and somehow they are still getting through to bump/eavesdrop my existing conversation then something is seriously wrong with my FPL account (or perhaps all FPL accounts...)

That message occurs under these conditions:

1) FPL's voicemail is already engaged with a caller, and another incoming call is routed to FPL's voicemail while it's already in use, or

2) a call is already in place, Follow Me is enabled; and someone else not dialing from an FPL, Fongo Mobile, or Fongo Home Phone number calls you

b) If the second call is from a FPL, Fongo Mobile, or Fongo Home Phone number, then the call will be forwarded to the Follow Me phone numbers, and after not being answered after ringing the Follow Me numbers, the second call eventually gets dropped to the "The user you are trying to reach is not available" message


But no one is able to eavesdrop on conversations without doing IP packet sniffing.

I have more than one FPL account. I've never, in over five years, experienced what you're experiencing with FPL. More importantly, I can't reproduce what you're experiencing with respect to someone being able to barge in on a call. I have received fax spam before, but I no longer do. At no time has any call been able to barge in.

Unless something is wrong with the landline (there have been cases where with a Bell landline, in the past, I've heard other calls, and I was not using FPL at the time. That's a Bell issue.), someone on your end is accidentally pressing "flash", or quickly pressing down on the receiver, calls cannot be switched.

Anyway, I've done all I can for you. I don't work for FPL, so I can't check our account or help you further.

[Savario]

...but you understand that my FPL won't accept two incoming calls without that "The user you are trying to reach.." disconnect message, so technically what this fax spammer is doing is impossible unless they have a magic fax machine.

anyway, I hear you and thanks for helping out.

[Liptonbrisk]

...but you understand that my FPL won't accept two incoming calls without that "The user you are trying to reach.." disconnect message, so technically what this fax spammer is doing is impossible unless they have a magic fax machine.

Unless it's a fax call from another FPL or Fongo Home Phone number (that will work even if you're already on a call with Follow Me enabled)

Technically, it's impossible for a user to disable call waiting on an FPL account without having your FPL account registered with something (ATA, softphone, etc.).

It is possible to disable call waiting on a landline though.
I'm out of ideas.

You can try to submit a ticket at https://support.fongo.com/hc/en-us/requests/new to have your account checked, but they don't offer free technical support, especially for unpaid accounts.

[Savario]

maybe i'll give it a try.

anyway, can't even log into the FPL account anymore...seems like that page was hacked. redirects to https://www.freephoneline/pdf/xxxx.html which is click SPAM. Nice.

[Liptonbrisk]

maybe i'll give it a try.

anyway, can't even log into the FPL account anymore...seems like that page was hacked. redirects to https://www.freephoneline/pdf/xxxx.html which is click SPAM. Nice.

That appears to be fixed now according to Fongo Support.

[Liptonbrisk]

...but you understand that my FPL won't accept two incoming calls without that "The user you are trying to reach.." disconnect message

Something else just occurred to me.

a. Login at https://www.freephoneline.ca/voicemailSettings
b. Check to ensure "Rings before voicemail" is set to something greater than 1. (ex. try "5", since you're not using FPL's voicemail anyway).

[Savario]

Check to ensure "Rings before voicemail" is set to something greater than 1. ]

yes, i checked that earlier and its always been set to 5.

[Liptonbrisk]

This call waiting question would better answered if I knew exactly how many incoming channels
and outgoing channels FPL supports per account.

I think it's two incoming channels, at least, otherwise call waiting wouldn't work at all.
And I think it has to be two outgoing channels due to supporting 3 way calling.

But I don't know if it's a maximum of 2 channels at any given time (1 outgoing and 1 incoming; 2 incoming; or 2 outgoing).

And then Follow Me complicates things.

[Liptonbrisk]

I know Freephoneline only supports a maximum of two outbound simultaneous call trunks per account

I should have said simultaneous outgoing channels.

[Liptonbrisk]

...but you understand that my FPL won't accept two incoming calls without that "The user you are trying to reach.." disconnect message, so technically what this fax spammer is doing is impossible unless they have a magic fax machine

My apologies to you. I just figured out what was going on with respect to Follow Me and Call Waiting.

1. Let's work with the premise that FPL allows any combination of two simultaneous channels at any given time (1 outgoing and 1 incoming; 2 incoming; or 2 outgoing).

2. FPL to FPL, FPL to Fongo Mobile, FPL to Fongo Home Phone are all SIP URI calls. I forgot this.

FPL doesn't normally allow inbound SIP URI calls from other VoIP networks, but it does within its related sister companies.

SIP URI calls don't count as a channel being used.

3. I was testing an incoming call (fax) with Follow Me from another FPL phone number. That would have been a SIP URI call, and that didn't count as an inbound channel being used.

4. When I have Follow Me enabled and am engaged in a call, I get the "user you are trying to reach is not available" message when there's an incoming call from anything other than an FPL, Fongo Mobile, or Fongo Home Phone number.


So unless the second call is coming from a FPL, Fongo Mobile, or Fongo Home Phone number, then Call Waiting is not going to work if Follow Me is enabled. Basically, Follow Me = No Call Waiting unless incoming the call is from a Fibernetics VoIP call. By the way, if you happen to ever get a phone number of the incoming caller, you can check what carrier owns that phone number by entering it in at https://www.twilio.com/lookup.


That still doesn't explain how an incoming call can barge into a landline though. I can't reproduce that. Again, unless something is wrong with the landline (there have been cases where with a Bell landline, in the past, I've heard other calls, and I was not using FPL at the time. That's a Bell issue.), someone on your end is accidentally pressing "flash", or quickly pressing down on the receiver, calls cannot be switched.

You might want to call Bell and ask them about the possibility of a crossed line. I suggest reading through this thread, despite it not being specific to Bell:
https://community.bt.com/t5/Phones/Prob ... -p/1130190
That problem is not isolated to any single POTS/landline company.