Can't call to Calgary local number 587893XXXX

[syedmahm]

Hi,
This is my first post. I have been a happy user of fongo for last couple of month. Thanks to the Fongo team for this excellent service.
Is it possible to add 587893XXX number in the Free Calling list please? This is a Calgary local number.
Thanks.

[FONGO_neil]

Thanks for letting us know. This npa nxx should be free, please allow 24-48hrs for this to be updated.

[syedmahm]

Thanks Neil. Also could you please check on another number which is 585-717-XXXX. This is also a Calgary local number but I can't make a call!
Thanks again.
Syed

[TheHardy]

Thanks for letting us know. This npa nxx should be free, please allow 24-48hrs for this to be updated.

Welcome Neil! Are you the new tariff guru on the forums? I had been PM'ing most tariff issues to Steve, should I be directing them to you now?

[TheHardy]

FYI, using the FPL ratecheck tool online, this is NOW showing as a free call, so it looks like it has already been resolved....

[syedmahm]

These 2 numbers are showing as $0.02 in the Rate List. Being a very new user of Freephoneline I am not sure if I am looking at the wrong list or no. Below is the image as what I am seeing.



Thanks for the help.

[Jake]

These 2 numbers are showing as $0.02 in the Rate List. Being a very new user of Freephoneline I am not sure if I am looking at the wrong list or no. Below is the image as what I am seeing.

Thanks for the help.

If you put those numbers through the rate checker they show up as free. What happens is they make that list that you posted but then change the actual rate table database and not update the full list. Why, I have no idea. I know it must take a bit of processing to produce that list, and would be sill to recreate it every time someone looks at it, but it would only take a second to re-run a cache making script every time they update the database, or even once a day in the morning so it is more up to date.

IMHO the 'full' list is almost useless as it has so many errors in it.

[FONGO_neil]

Thanks Neil. Also could you please check on another number which is 585-717-XXXX. This is also a Calgary local number but I can't make a call!
Thanks again.
Syed

I've checked localcallingguide and cnac.ca, and both don't list the area code, can you double check to make sure this is valid.

[FONGO_neil]

Thanks for letting us know. This npa nxx should be free, please allow 24-48hrs for this to be updated.

Welcome Neil! Are you the new tariff guru on the forums? I had been PM'ing most tariff issues to Steve, should I be directing them to you now?

Yes anything you think should be free, let me know and I will look into it.

[Jake]

Thanks Neil. Also could you please check on another number which is 585-717-XXXX. This is also a Calgary local number but I can't make a call!
Thanks again.
Syed

I've checked localcallingguide and cnac.ca, and both don't list the area code, can you double check to make sure this is valid.

Looking at the screen shot he posted I think the number he meant to put was 587-717-xxxx

[TheHardy]

Thanks Neil. Also could you please check on another number which is 585-717-XXXX. This is also a Calgary local number but I can't make a call!
Thanks again.
Syed

Taking a wild stab here and guessing that you meant 587-717 and not 585-717 .... correct??

587-717 is showing up as a FREE call in the ratelookup tool ... so this should not be an issue....

[TheHardy]

Yes anything you think should be free, let me know and I will look into it.

Okay ... thanks Neil -- I am sure that will take some of the load off of Steve, as I have been pestering him with it ...

That being said, would YOU be able to answer why the Fongo-local calling area for certain destinations is not the same as the traditional WIRELINE local calling area??

Specific examples that come to mind are the WINNIPEG and HALIFAX local calling areas, as there are some outlying areas that do not seem to be FREE; this has been bandied about in detail in a few other threads earlier (2+ months ago) and was never really resolved, rather the answer was "Fongo does not have DID's in those areas, so the calling area is limited" ... but if a call to "Metro-Winnipeg" is free, then why would that not include all of the traditional WIRELINE local calling area of Winnipeg?

Would you be able to shed some light on this? There are several more examples that I can quote where this is the case, but if there is an official answer for ONE, then it probably fits ALL of the cases ...

Thanks in advance if you are able to take the time and look into this a little more...

Edit: Link to the thread in which one of the primary discussions was held:
http://forum.fongo.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3488

Search note: try HALIFAX + LCA or WINNIPEG + LCA for a search ...

Basis for determining trad. wireline LCA is localcallingguide.com as well as verifying this with people on the ground in the area affected.

[TheHardy]

Should probably make this back into it's own topic, but seeing we started part of a convo here on this ...

I guess the larger question is back to "What does Fongo consider a local calling area" and "How is a local calling area determined around a POP?". It goes back to how the termination is charged back to Fongo ... I can see in the case of where Fongo has DID's that it IS currently the full LCA ... but where Fongo is only offering POP's (ie free calls in, such as say Victoria BC, Halifax NS, Winnipeg MB, Kelowna BC), I am tying to figure out WHY it is only PART of the LCA; if there is an agreement with a 3rd party to terminate SOME of the calls for that LCA, why is it NOT the whole LCA? If the calls are being routed into that POP, would the interconnect agreement not therefore cover the whole LCA of the CLEC that is providing the terminating trunk? Or is it something specific in the agreement Fongo has with that CLEC to provide the incoming calling to that POP?

If this is something worth pursuing, I can make an extensive list of all the affected ratececentre POPs for further checking and possible correction; it would serve to increase the "footprint" and useability of FPL/DV immensely and go to fixing some longstanding issues that have plagued some of the long term members of the community.

[FONGO_steve]

Should probably make this back into it's own topic, but seeing we started part of a convo here on this ...

I guess the larger question is back to "What does Fongo consider a local calling area" and "How is a local calling area determined around a POP?". It goes back to how the termination is charged back to Fongo ... I can see in the case of where Fongo has DID's that it IS currently the full LCA ... but where Fongo is only offering POP's (ie free calls in, such as say Victoria BC, Halifax NS, Winnipeg MB, Kelowna BC), I am tying to figure out WHY it is only PART of the LCA; if there is an agreement with a 3rd party to terminate SOME of the calls for that LCA, why is it NOT the whole LCA? If the calls are being routed into that POP, would the interconnect agreement not therefore cover the whole LCA of the CLEC that is providing the terminating trunk? Or is it something specific in the agreement Fongo has with that CLEC to provide the incoming calling to that POP?

If this is something worth pursuing, I can make an extensive list of all the affected ratececentre POPs for further checking and possible correction; it would serve to increase the "footprint" and useability of FPL/DV immensely and go to fixing some longstanding issues that have plagued some of the long term members of the community.

In certain areas we do leverage other agreements - that's why we can bring calls into some specific cities that are are not yet able to offer DIDs in or a full LCA free calling area. As we continue to grow we'll hopefully see more evolution of these areas as well.

[TheHardy]

In certain areas we do leverage other agreements - that's why we can bring calls into some specific cities that are are not yet able to offer DIDs in or a full LCA free calling area. As we continue to grow we'll hopefully see more evolution of these areas as well.

I understand the "secretive" nature that must surround such agreements and "leveraging" ... and I fully get the DID issue, insofar as it is a Pay-to-Play operation with offering actual numbers...

The inbound calling LCA however, still continues to baffle me, as if there is an interconnection agreement into a specific POP, and whatever *LEC you have that interconnection agreement with terminates there, unless they are based out of a different ratecentre (which would make no sense for a metro area, as they would be based in the HEART of it....), I just don't get it.

That is why I have continued to ask regarding this issue, it is not so much that I want to flog a dead horse, I just do not understand the HOW of it ... it is not that I am asking for a trade secret or the Caramilk Solution ... for actual *LECs (not WLECS tho) that offer service in a certain area, the core LCA is more or less governed Telecom Act (which sets out what is a local free call and not). Some *LECs may offer a LARGER area, but none can offer a smaller area.

I know that this does not DIRECTLY apply to Fongo as you are not the CLEC in THOSE areas in which you do not have DID's ... but whomever you are TERMINATING on surely is a *LEC in that region, and THEY would be bound by those rules.

_THIS_ is why I am confused and seeking clarification ...